Why is off-road lighting so expensive?

[FordFamily4Fun]

And perhaps off-road lights are not so expensive given the cost of components for high-output, made in USA, etc., but I did have some sticker shock first joining this forum with my new Bronco. Mind you, I have done decades of off-road, but it has been primarily driving beaches night fishing or beach fun days with friends and family. When surf fishing working up and down beaches at night, you want minimal light so as to not scare fish that feel safe coming close to the shore due to darkness. When you hit a popular area, a lot of driving around with just parking lights on the beach. Using your headlamp to change a lure? Red light and turn away from water. Anyway, I just figured in a competitive free-market economy ditch lights and light bars would not get you into the $500 - $1,000 range. Any quality (and I assume quality is the key here) less expensive alternatives I am missing?

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[JediMcMuffin]

Because it can be. I guarantee the profit margins are absolutely vomit worthy. LEDs were supposed to make everything cheaper and power efficient and we're being suckered into paying WAY more for what should be less expensive technology. I don't get it either.

Now that being said, go get a light off Ali Express and compare the housing to a Baja Designs light.

 

[Felix808]

Because it can be. I guarantee the profit margins are absolutely vomit worthy. LEDs were supposed to make everything cheaper and power efficient and we're being suckered into paying WAY more for what should be less expensive technology. I don't get it either.

Now that being said, go get a light off Ali Express and compare the housing to a Baja Designs light.

Yep, because so many are willing to pay for it

 

[PWillette]

I'm sure the high price lights are worth the investment for the long run but I just can't bring myself to drop that much cash on lights for my use. For me the money is better used on suspension/engine upgrades. I spent less than $200 for a set of Auxbeam ditch lights off ebay and they do everything I need.

 

[tractorcrusher]

The market drives the price, and yes the vendors are making an absolute killing on the markup. Everybody thinks "well lightbars are always $1000 so it's just a matter of which $1000 light bar I want."

I met somebody with an aftermarket shop and he didn't start making giant profit until he started pushing LED lights. His shop grew in size as did his car collection thanks to LED stuff.

 

[4x4TruckLEDs.com]

And perhaps off-road lights are not so expensive given the cost of components for high-output, made in USA, etc., but I did have some sticker shock first joining this forum with my new Bronco. Mind you, I have done decades of off-road, but it has been primarily driving beaches night fishing or beach fun days with friends and family. When surf fishing working up and down beaches at night, you want minimal light so as to not scare fish that feel safe coming close to the shore due to darkness. When you hit a popular area, a lot of driving around with just parking lights on the beach. Using your headlamp to change a lure? Red light and turn away from water. Anyway, I just figured in a competitive free-market economy ditch lights and light bars would not get you into the $500 - $1,000 range. Any quality (and I assume quality is the key here) less expensive alternatives I am missing?

What lights are you looking at?

Because we have some american made light kits that are $200, WITH wiring harness.

So it really depends on what you're looking for and after.

Triple fog kits would cost more, as it's 3 pairs of lights + brackets + wiring.

Ditch lights are less $$ since it's 1 pair of lights.

Light bars can cost more money as it's a bigger item.

Check out our site. We've got lots of options for every budget. We DO NOT sell cheap garbage though, that's 1 thing to know about us. Everything we out our name behind. We WILL NEVER sell garbage that will rust or fail, because the last thing we want is an upset customer. We sell high quality lights but we also sell afordable lights as well.

Baja Designs make the best lights, but cost the most $$.

Diode Dynamics are not cheap garbage but not as high quality as Baja Designs. BUT the price is just right. A bit more then your cheap overseas lights, but less $$ then the higher end brands. (and made in the USA)

Sooo a bit of everything for everybody

I'm a surf fisherman also, you should check out our fishing rod holders while you're at it

Our Bronco Section: https://www.4x4truckleds.com/vehicle-specific/ford/ford-bronco/2021-bronco/

Fishing Rod Holders: https://www.4x4truckleds.com/kr-off-road-fishing-rod-holder-for-2021-ford-bronco/

 

[4x4TruckLEDs.com]

The market drives the price, and yes the vendors are making an absolute killing on the markup. Everybody thinks "well lightbars are always $1000 so it's just a matter of which $1000 light bar I want."

I met somebody with an aftermarket shop and he didn't start making giant profit until he started pushing LED lights. His shop grew in size as did his car collection thanks to LED stuff.

That's not actually true... Nobody is making a killing on anything. In fact, business right now is slow for everybody and a lot of vendors are having a tough time right now.

A lot of people forget what goes into selling something. I have the following expenses before I even get to give myself any kind of salary

-Inventory
-Rent (as I have a retail store/warehouse)
-Insurance
-Payroll
-Electricity
-Oil (we're on oil here for heat) or A/C in summer
-Internet
-Credit card fees (we don't charge our customers so this comes out of our end)
-E-Commerce storefront fees
-Marketing (we spend a FORTUNE on google/facebook marketing) not to mention all the forums we're on
-Discounts (because we offer discounts, and that takes a HUGE chunk out of profits)

Finally, after all that MAYBE I get to pay myself, as an owner, something. I'll be honest though, and every business owner will tell you the same thing. We are the LAST PEOPLE who make money and sometimes don't.

Sooo all of this costs money.

It also costs a lot of money to make lights.

Baja Designs makes their lights BY HAND. Diode Dynamics makes their lights BY HAND. They don't have some automated system building them. SURE the circuit boards might come off an assembly line, but there's an actual human that is soldering the components, screwing down boards, making the light a LIGHT. That guy gets paid a living wage too.

Unlike overseas lights which are cheap because they don't pay their workers a living wage, american made products cost money because of what goes into them. When you buy something from an american company you are helping to put food on someones table. Pay someones rent. Give someone an education.

There's more to buying any product basically then paying "cost". Too many people want "a deal" and "just give it to me for a little over cost" but fail to realize ALL the other factors that go into it.

 

[AttackGuy64]

That's not actually true... Nobody is making a killing on anything. In fact, business right now is slow for everybody and a lot of vendors are having a tough time right now.

A lot of people forget what goes into selling something. I have the following expenses before I even get to give myself any kind of salary

-Inventory
-Rent (as I have a retail store/warehouse)
-Insurance
-Payroll
-Electricity
-Oil (we're on oil here for heat) or A/C in summer
-Internet
-Credit card fees (we don't charge our customers so this comes out of our end)
-E-Commerce storefront fees
-Marketing (we spend a FORTUNE on google/facebook marketing) not to mention all the forums we're on
-Discounts (because we offer discounts, and that takes a HUGE chunk out of profits)

Finally, after all that MAYBE I get to pay myself, as an owner, something. I'll be honest though, and every business owner will tell you the same thing. We are the LAST PEOPLE who make money and sometimes don't.

Sooo all of this costs money.

It also costs a lot of money to make lights.

Baja Designs makes their lights BY HAND. Diode Dynamics makes their lights BY HAND. They don't have some automated system building them. SURE the circuit boards might come off an assembly line, but there's an actual human that is soldering the components, screwing down boards, making the light a LIGHT. That guy gets paid a living wage too.

Unlike overseas lights which are cheap because they don't pay their workers a living wage, american made products cost money because of what goes into them. When you buy something from an american company you are helping to put food on someones table. Pay someones rent. Give someone an education.

There's more to buying any product basically then paying "cost". Too many people want "a deal" and "just give it to me for a little over cost" but fail to realize ALL the other factors that go into it.

As a former business owner who lost everything due to COVID, I get you. Most people don't realize you probably didn't even draw a paycheck the first year you were in business. Every dime gets put back into the business to make it grow. Even when you get to a reasonable size and your wife is ready to murder you because of your "hobby business," you still get paid last. People depend on their leaders at work to make good decisions. Those decisions affect people's lives way down the line. If you make a mistake and tank your business, your employees end up in the unemployment line and that's the worst feeling in the world. Ask me how I know. The margins these days are not great, do you think Ford is selling a lot of $10,000 winch options? Probably not, because buyers are always looking to save pennies where they can. Why buy a $1200 Warn when you can buy a $650 Badlands? Buyers pay their money and make their choices, but I am a firm believer of "buy once, cry once."

 

[BroncoA512021]

Because it can be. I guarantee the profit margins are absolutely vomit worthy. LEDs were supposed to make everything cheaper and power efficient and we're being suckered into paying WAY more for what should be less expensive technology. I don't get it either.

Now that being said, go get a light off Ali Express and compare the housing to a Baja Designs light.

I guess you are not a business owner....

 

[4x4TruckLEDs.com]

As a former business owner who lost everything due to COVID, I get you. Most people don't realize you probably didn't even draw a paycheck the first year you were in business. Every dime gets put back into the business to make it grow. Even when you get to a reasonable size and your wife is ready to murder you because of your "hobby business," you still get paid last. People depend on their leaders at work to make good decisions. Those decisions affect people's lives way down the line. If you make a mistake and tank your business, your employees end up in the unemployment line and that's the worst feeling in the world. Ask me how I know. The margins these days are not great, do you think Ford is selling a lot of $10,000 winch options? Probably not, because buyers are always looking to save pennies where they can. Why buy a $1200 Warn when you can buy a $650 Badlands? Buyers pay their money and make their choices, but I am a firm believer of "buy once, cry once."

Sorry to hear about your business, that sucks. And for the first year? Heh. I didn't take a paycheck for the first 4 years or so. I only took a paycheck over the last few years. And truth be told i've taken a paycut because I wanted to ensure my staff got paid more and didn't get a paycut when business slowed down.

So yeah... I wouldn't say we're "making an absolute killing" by any means.

 

[4x4TruckLEDs.com]

Because it can be. I guarantee the profit margins are absolutely vomit worthy. LEDs were supposed to make everything cheaper and power efficient and we're being suckered into paying WAY more for what should be less expensive technology. I don't get it either.

Now that being said, go get a light off Ali Express and compare the housing to a Baja Designs light.

LEDs are DIRT cheap, you are right about that. They make things cheaper. It's probably the least expensive part of the light. There's a lot more to the light then just the LED.

The circuit boards cost money. And to do it right with the right components, costs money. There's more to a light then the diode. Open up any Diode Dynamics or Baja Designs light and you'll see all that goes into it outside of the LED itself.

Then the housings. This has got to be the biggest expense of them all. Some are using a CNC machined housing. Others had to go to a molded process. But they are still big/expensive to make.

Let's not forget about MOLDS and what those costs. @Diode Dynamics & @Baja Designs care to share what a mold costs you guys, because I know it can cost a LOT of money, especially if you make a mold and then have to REVISE it later for some reason.

Molds for the housings
Molds for the optics
Molds for the bezels

(and that's if you are not CNCing them out of a piece of metal)

So that 20 cent LED diode isn't where all the costs are.

 

[AttackGuy64]

Sorry to hear about your business, that sucks. And for the first year? Heh. I didn't take a paycheck for the first 4 years or so. I only took a paycheck over the last few years. And truth be told i've taken a paycut because I wanted to ensure my staff got paid more and didn't get a paycut when business slowed down.

So yeah... I wouldn't say we're "making an absolute killing" by any means.

That's what good leaders do.

 

[Cux211]

As a former business owner who lost everything due to COVID, I get you. Most people don't realize you probably didn't even draw a paycheck the first year you were in business. Every dime gets put back into the business to make it grow. Even when you get to a reasonable size and your wife is ready to murder you because of your "hobby business," you still get paid last. People depend on their leaders at work to make good decisions. Those decisions affect people's lives way down the line. If you make a mistake and tank your business, your employees end up in the unemployment line and that's the worst feeling in the world. Ask me how I know. The margins these days are not great, do you think Ford is selling a lot of $10,000 winch options? Probably not, because buyers are always looking to save pennies where they can. Why buy a $1200 Warn when you can buy a $650 Badlands? Buyers pay their money and make their choices, but I am a firm believer of "buy once, cry once."

I get you guys, but let’s be honest really there are lots of small companies out there trying to get rich quick or trying to pay for their machining equipment off the first handful of sales (exaggerated of course) how many times have you seen where a product had maybe a couple hundred bucks at most (being extremely giving) in materials most times only a few bucks then they’re trying to charge thousands for said product come on it’s borderline extortion lol

 

[Cux211]

Sorry to hear about your business, that sucks. And for the first year? Heh. I didn't take a paycheck for the first 4 years or so. I only took a paycheck over the last few years. And truth be told i've taken a paycut because I wanted to ensure my staff got paid more and didn't get a paycut when business slowed down.

So yeah... I wouldn't say we're "making an absolute killing" by any means.

Then you sir are one of the rare good ones, and will be buying from you

 

[Rydfree]

I owned a custom shop and accessory business for 20 years . I did well and closed in 2008 as I could already see a downturn in the economy coming. I'm glad I did as the economy crapped out in 2009. Anyone who says they are not making a killing, or a more than decent living is full of shit. All you have to do is look at the house they live in and the vehicles they have ,lol. If the company owner is driving a vehicle like mine and making hard decisions on what to spend money on then , yeah , they may be telling the truth but most likely they living in a very nice home and driving decked out Raptors .

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