Bronco

[Bmadda]

To be perfectly honest, I don't know if I shifted again to another gear, most likely not, as I was focused on the restart, but yes, if in 1st, it would have just stopped or maybe turned the engine backwards, but very slow anyway. But if I was thinking, apparently to no avail, I would have shifted to reverse and dumped the clutch, but as I said as well as the other commentor, you can't dump a clutch in a 6G Bronco and get it to restart, completely new and sad news to my ears, just found that out tonight. I believed him, but it was easy enough to test and confirm myself, YOU CANNOT restart one. Yeah, so yesterday and today, I was just thinking I screwed up and didn't do the things I needed to, now a day and many comments later, it sounds like even the things I thought I could do would have had little affect, which leads me to what the heck could be done? I don't know yet

I think the only thing you could have done to safely get through it was:
1) dump the clutch (assuming trans still in gear...any gear)
2) put both feet on brake pedal and squeeze down as hard as you could
3) set Ebrake
4) apply clutch and restart engine
5) put in neutral, making sure the Ebrake would hold you on that hill
6) hop out and close the hood because you popped it in a panic reaching for the Ebrake.

When you think about it that's quite a checklist in a high stress situation! Or like I said earlier, if you had been allowed to restart your engine, you would have regained control. I see this as a software flaw! I just played around w/crank in gear in the driveway to see how well I could use it, and it's SO WONKY. If you step on the clutch, the dialog box on the dash disappears, it reappears if you release the clutch, you have to scroll down to select "yes", then hold the brake pedal, and hold the start button. If you hold the brake too hard it cant start, if you release to early it says "crank in gear cancelled" and doesn't allow you to try again. This would be too difficult for me in a stressful situation I think! I do love my 6g Bronco, but I think the software REALLY needs work!

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[Fordified1]

If the bronco is super difficult or impossible to stop without a booster the piston in the master cylinder is too small for the weight of the vehicle, OR the brake pedal design doesn’t have enough leverage built in. It’s a huge safety issue. Brake boosters do fail. The ability to stop if they do is supposed to be engineered into the system.

 

[Fordified1]

It might be a good idea to have some vacuum reserve and or an auxiliary electric vacuum pump.
JEGS Vacuum Reserve Canister - JEGS

We shouldn’t have to do it. Ford needs to rethink having vacuum boosted brakes on a turbocharged vehicle (just dumb). The V6 already has electric boosted brakes.

 

[userdude]

Hear that aftermarket? Bronco needs an easier to find and engage eBrake switch.

"Hey Alexa, stop my Bronco!!!"

"I'm sorry I can't do that, Dan."

 

[Zero Options]

I guess those of us driving manuals should put in an extra leg day at the gym?

 

[Felix808]

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies. I think a lot of these were very helpful in trying to figure some things out. I just want to make clear what happened to answer some questions, maybe this will help in the future, maybe not, hopefully with these experiences, despite being painful, maybe we can learn.

Sequence of events.

First off, let me just say what was weird. I have done this hill twice before and I have stalled before, both in 4L and 4H and never had this happen. Now maybe something was different, maybe not, like maybe the incline at stall was higher, but I'm pretty sure I stalled earlier in the day on a 39 degree hill (this one was upper 20's/low 30's), and I was in 4L with both lockers on and the sway bar DC, "full war package" so to speak.

-Went up, there is a rock that is difficult to traverse, but had before.

-I was trying to get another better angle.

-I did shift from C to 1st to get more wheel speed versus engine rpm. I'm not a "send it" kind of guy, I usually like slow and steady, but sometimes momentum can be your friend, even if it often is not. Please pay little attention to the scraping sounds, I have enough skid plates to armor a WW2 battleship.

-I think maybe I didn't feather the clutch just right in 1st and that's when I stalled. Not positive, but seems likely, it happened pretty quickly.

-I think at that point it stalled and I may have lost all vacuum pressure for the brakes and the engine would not start.

-I rolled back with the clutch pushed in and the foot on the brake, so using both feet for the brake and clutch, but unlike every single other time I've ever had to auto-start the vehicle, it simply did not this time, so the issue wasn't a direct brake failure to be clear. There was no power to the brakes and I could not manually push hard enough to engage the brakes.

-At this point the Bronco rolls back without me being able to stop it. Also at this point, I am stunned because it won't restart and am in WTH mode. Passenger side hits a rock, that's the pop up in the video, which does two things, destroys the bumper and thankfully actually slows it down...a little.

-The rest of the way, I am trying to restart, so I am pressing again, both clutch and brake in. Aftermath was kind of funny people yelling brakes, sorry silver lining joke, because I already knew to do that.

-I probably hit the smaller tree at I would guess was 10-15mph. I think the tree or rather the tree hitting the spare tire saved the body and hardtop. And because it was tight, I lost the driver mirror to incidental contact as I rolled down the hill.

So here are some questions/thoughts. As I read the comments, maybe there was nothing wrong with the Bronco, maybe it did what it was supposed to do, like it doesn't start in certain situations. So, I thought maybe I just reacted too slow and I'm all to blame for this. And I should have popped the clutch and jumped started the manual transmission vehicle to regain power brakes. But I saw some folks mention that you can't roll start a 6G Bronco, funny enough after reading that, I called me kids out to help me push and try and it does not, WTH Ford, that's one of the advantages of a manual, a dead battery will never stop you...sort of.

So, it seems I could not have started it again, therefore never giving me brake power back.

So, could I have put it in gear and popped the clutch and it may have just stopped there on the hill? I mean, I guess what I'm saying is, what is the fix if you lose brake power and can't pop the clutch to restart?

I think about the new Defender commerical where they back up to the ledge and stop, well what happens when you do that in a Bronco and it stalls? Am I just supposed to jump out quickly before I go over the edge, geez. Obviously extreme example, but nonetheless possible based on events two days ago.

OH ONE LAST THING, IT DID HAVE A SERVICE VEHICLE SOON LIGHT ON AND SAID 4X4 DISABLED AFTER THE ACCIDENT. At this time, I needed 4X4 to at least get out of the park, so I turned the vehicle off, locked it, unlocked it, restarted it and the service vehicle soon light was gone and 4X4 was enabled again. I wanted to keep the codes in there but I wasn't going to keep the vehicle on until Monday morning taking it to Ford, plus they didn't occur until AFTER the accident.

My hope is this clear up some questions that people have had.

Great after action report! I'm glad you are ok & look to be taking the attitude of someone I knew growing up, which was "We are going to laugh about it someday, might as well start now" Not always easy to do .

I know it's easy to say you should have done this or that not having been there in the moment, but I think just letting out the clutch would have slowed if not stopped the vehicle in place, then it could have been sorted from there.

Best wishes getting it back together .

 

[Catatonic]

So I am no expert off roader...

I don't think that would have mattered. Manual trans owner here, and serious concerns.

Parking brake probably would not have helped you. I've rolled up to a gate multiple times where I've pulled the parking brake a bit prematurely at around 1mph and the thing just chatters at me and fails to turn on. Only once has it locked the brake as expected with a 1 inch skid on gravel. Sometimes the dash even tells me to SERVICE NOW! as a result. It's clearly a parking brake, not an emergency brake.

Your regular brakes should have worked good enough even in a no power situation. I wonder if you had an ABS module failure. On the manuals, they have a little 'hill start' assist for about 2 seconds where the Bronco holds the brakes so you don't roll back while releasing the clutch. Hardly noticeable, but it's there. I've tested to see how steep it works (very!) and I never heard the electronic parking brake grind on. The feature is silent so must be controlled by the ABS module. In some of my testing though I've notice that if I stall it on a hill with the Auto Start/Stop enabled, it gets confused and just gives up and won't restart without hitting the starter button (key).

Thus I'm worried it's a programming issue. It got put in an out of bounds situation where it didn't know how to handle and just didn't give you permission to use the brakes. If so, what could you possibly have done? All speculation of course, I'm no engineer, just someone wishing for a little less high tech in my off-roader so that it behaves as I want it to.

 

[Aman]

I don’t think Broncos have an input on manual transmissions for gear position. They don’t have up shift lights or rev matching on downshifts so there’s no reason for a gear input on a manual. I could be wrong, I would have to check when I get back to work.

They absolutely do have a gear position sensor. It's on the LH side of the trans.

As Brian mentioned, they do have a gear position sensor and even shows the selected gear on the instrument cluster. In addition, if you have the Ford Performance tune, you can enable rev matching on downshifts which works incredibly well.

 

[Catatonic]

It won’t start at all when you’re moving over about 1-2 mph, very annoying when I’m clutch in creeping down my driveway on purpose. Have to completely stop.

Oh yeah! This too. One of the reasons I bought a manual trans was so it could be push started. They totally F'd that up for us. Thus rolling backwards trying to start, not gonna happen.

 

[Aman]

A lot of newer vehicles cut throttle if you press the gas and the brake at the same time. It’s to prevent old people from hitting both at the same time and ramming straight in to a McDonald’s. That’s my thought at least.

Yep, I have heard that also, but I never touched the gas, that is the one thing I'm sure of.

I have never heard of a manual transmission vehicle that prevents you from applying the brakes and gas at the same time. How else are you supposed to manually rev match when downshifting?

 

[Catatonic]

As Brian mentioned, they do have a gear position sensor and even shows the selected gear on the instrument cluster. In addition, if you have the Ford Performance tune, you can enable rev matching on downshifts which works incredibly well.

Huh? I can blip the throttle on downshifts and not use the clutch and I don't have the Performance tune. Just have to use your ears and listen to the engine pitch.

 

[Aman]

Huh? I can blip the throttle on downshifts and not use the clutch and I don't have the Performance tune. Just have to use your ears and listen to the engine pitch.

Yes, I should have specified "auto" rev match with the tune.

Of course, if you know the vehicle well, you can upshift or downshift without the clutch...just have to be precise.

 

[Catatonic]

Yes, I should have specified "auto" rev match with the tune.

Of course, if you know the vehicle well, you can upshift or downshift without the clutch...just have to be precise.

Auto! Oh how annoying!

Thanks for clarification. That makes sense.

Edit: I also want to say, for those auto trans owners wondering, even with my complaints about not being able to push start it, and the gravel rumble on cold start, the manual trans is incredibly enjoyable to drive. The shift throw, feel, everything about it is really, really good. The pull in second gear never gets old, and I love the way I can just stick it in crawler mode and let it idle up a steep hill while I step out and make a sandwich at the picnic table.

 

[FloridaBurgBronco]

Great after action report! I'm glad you are ok & look to be taking the attitude of someone I knew growing up, which was "We are going to laugh about it someday, might as well start now" Not always easy to do .

I know it's easy to say you should have done this or that not having been there in the moment, but I think just letting out the clutch would have slowed if not stopped the vehicle in place, then it could have been sorted from there.

Best wishes getting it back together .

Yep, thanks for your kind words, yes in retrospect, I think letting the clutch out was my only options at all really. Someone did recommend installing a larger vacuum reservior , so maybe I''ll look into that and check out that video they posted too, well one before that post. Thing is, I have been up probably a hundred or more hills similar to this one and never had an issue. My WTH mode wasn't 100%, that's for sure.

 

[BadlandsA51]

As Brian mentioned, they do have a gear position sensor and even shows the selected gear on the instrument cluster. In addition, if you have the Ford Performance tune, you can enable rev matching on downshifts which works incredibly well.

Yep, I stand corrected. I’ve only driven 1 7 speed and didn’t notice the gear display on the cluster. And, yes, rev matching is cool. I’ve driven several Mustangs with it.

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