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since jeep has the same rear end anything they are using will work...
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Iām still hopeful they will make a trutrac thatās compatible with the front m190. They may but I havenāt found one yet. The 3.73 non locking gears are welded I have not heard that about any other gear ratio. For us 90% on road guys in the winter a good front lsd type front axle wouldnāt be a bad thing. For the rear Iām not gonna mess with the stock locker it works when I need it to.
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Jeeps lsd is junk, I have one in my 2020 jl Willyās 2 dr. Itās a 2.75ā clutch pack shimmed snuggly, no springs. It relies on thermal expansion, basically as it spins one wheel it gets hot, making the clutch pack growā¦ untilā¦.. friction all while burning up those tiny clutch discs.
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Absolutely, it's the whole reason to get the Advanced Package. Set it and forget it all Winter long. Missed that since my old Discovery died of old age. (Perfect Aluminum body, completely rusted through frame)
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The Jeep lsd is made more for pavement and works real well for snow/ice driving on pavement or gravel. I had this on a Sahara and it was great. It quite possibly would burn up off road though No idea.
TruTrac has a solid reputation and I suspect Iāll be able to fit one to my Bronco at some point.
TruTrac has a solid reputation and I suspect Iāll be able to fit one to my Bronco at some point.
You're going to want a Torsen or True Trac. @Rocketeer Rick is the one to ask for specific model that will fit the M220. You will have to get new ring gears as well.
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Unfortunately, it seems that the aftermarket has been slow to develop differential options for the Dana Advantek axles. I think its been hindered by the fact that both Ford and Jeep are referring to them as "Dana 44", which they are most certainly not.
I can't speak for anyone else out there, but I have managed to finally get my hands on both the open and locker units for the M220; supply shortages have made them hard to get a hold of. I have been working on developing TorsenĀ® models for them. It'll probably be late in the year before they're available though. Stay tuned.
Broncos and Rangers that have the open version do have a welded on ring gear, so you will also need a new ring & pinion set for the install. You just buy the 3.73:1 set that is used with the Ranger locking axle. Obviously, if you have 4.46 gears, you buy the locker 4.46 gear set instead. As far as I can tell, the 4.27 and 4.7:1 ratios are only paired with lockers anyway, so they have bolted gears already. This adds another level of expense and complication to the swap, but it doesn't prevent the install.
I do second the notion that, although an LSD is helpful in winter, your money is better spent on dedicated snow tires first. Put them together and its great, but snow tires will improve everything the vehicle does on snow, whereas the LSD only improves acceleration.
I can't speak for anyone else out there, but I have managed to finally get my hands on both the open and locker units for the M220; supply shortages have made them hard to get a hold of. I have been working on developing TorsenĀ® models for them. It'll probably be late in the year before they're available though. Stay tuned.
Broncos and Rangers that have the open version do have a welded on ring gear, so you will also need a new ring & pinion set for the install. You just buy the 3.73:1 set that is used with the Ranger locking axle. Obviously, if you have 4.46 gears, you buy the locker 4.46 gear set instead. As far as I can tell, the 4.27 and 4.7:1 ratios are only paired with lockers anyway, so they have bolted gears already. This adds another level of expense and complication to the swap, but it doesn't prevent the install.
I do second the notion that, although an LSD is helpful in winter, your money is better spent on dedicated snow tires first. Put them together and its great, but snow tires will improve everything the vehicle does on snow, whereas the LSD only improves acceleration.
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Is brake actuated just creating an anchor point with the spinning wheel ? If yes this is common on almost all AWD 4WD vehicles. When it gets bad in snow on pavement you shouldnāt have to lock up your rear. You should be confident enough to continue in 4WD and take turns etc. to be fair I donāt really understand GOAT and havenāt used it yet
I can see locking being useful on an incline in deep snow but the reality of my winter driving was it never warranted engaging
I can see locking being useful on an incline in deep snow but the reality of my winter driving was it never warranted engaging
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Any non-locking differential needs to be able to react against something on both sides in order to work and deliver torque to the ground. The simplest way for me put explain is if there's no reaction, there's no equal and opposite action to allow applying a driving torque. Normally, that reaction comes from the tire on the road - the tractive effort of the tire supports the torque delivery to the tire and then the road. The max amount of available torque is directly related to that traction.
An open diff splits available torque 50:50 - so when one tire can only handle a small amount of traction, it means that the other tire only will get an equally small amount of drive torque. If 500 lb-ft of torque is possible from the engine/transmission, and the tire with least traction can handle at least 250lb-ft, then it will get 250 lb-ft and the tire with good traction will also get 250, and all 500 lb-ft is produced and delivered to the tires.
But if that low traction tire can only handle 50 lb-ft before it spins, then that limits how much can go to the tire with good traction to also 50 lb-ft. As such, the total that actually can get to the road is only 100 lb-ft, and the remaining potential 400 lb-ft doesn't get created. Because you can only create the torque you can support. Equal and opposite action/reaction. Any attempt to send more torque or apply more throttle will just cause the low traction tire to spin at its traction limit. This is why people repeat the "one-wheel drive" notion, even though that's not really accurate as I've described here.
Typical LSDs allow an imbalance of torque to exist across the differential before slip occurs. It might allow a 40:60 or maybe 25:75 split to occur, thereby letting the high traction tire get more torque than the low traction side does before slippage occurs. This is enough to keep you moving probably 85-90% of the time*. That's the advantage of a limited slip differential - it will limit one-tire slip most of the time. But that's why the name is "limited" and not "eliminates-all" (that later category is a "locker").
So this leads us to brake-based traction control or "brake-based" LSD function. This is using the brake system to give the differential something to react against when tire traction won't suffice. When a tire wants to slip, the brake on that corner can step in and provide the differential a load to work off of. If the brake provides 200 lb-ft of resistance when the tire can only support 50, you are back to being able to support 250 lb-ft on the low traction side. So the high traction tire can get 250 as well. You are also back to being able to produce all 500 lb-ft that was potential from the engine in this scenario. You are not, however, delivering all 500 lb-ft to the road - 200 of it was absorbed by the brake system, so only 300 gets to the tires. But its better than the alternative where only 100 lb-ft gets to the road.
This is the drawback of brake-based intervention - it uses a negative (braking) load to allow a positive (drive) result. You are necessarily requiring loss of drive efficiency to move forward Its literally sucking power out of the driveline. You are probably also creating a lot of clunking and banging as the brake system tries to help, which is noticeable inside the vehicle. They also have the habit of eventually cutting the throttle back to get things in control, and that can happen at very inconvenient times.
OTOH, a good LSD will either a) allow the high traction tire to get enough to torque in the first place so as to not need the brakes to step in rob power, or b) if they do have to actuate, they won't need nearly as much intervention to achieve the desired result. So, in either case, the brake traction system will help in a pinch, but is by no means an end-all traction solution, and very much would benefit from being paired with an LSD. And good tires.
*based on experienced wild-assed guess
An open diff splits available torque 50:50 - so when one tire can only handle a small amount of traction, it means that the other tire only will get an equally small amount of drive torque. If 500 lb-ft of torque is possible from the engine/transmission, and the tire with least traction can handle at least 250lb-ft, then it will get 250 lb-ft and the tire with good traction will also get 250, and all 500 lb-ft is produced and delivered to the tires.
But if that low traction tire can only handle 50 lb-ft before it spins, then that limits how much can go to the tire with good traction to also 50 lb-ft. As such, the total that actually can get to the road is only 100 lb-ft, and the remaining potential 400 lb-ft doesn't get created. Because you can only create the torque you can support. Equal and opposite action/reaction. Any attempt to send more torque or apply more throttle will just cause the low traction tire to spin at its traction limit. This is why people repeat the "one-wheel drive" notion, even though that's not really accurate as I've described here.
Typical LSDs allow an imbalance of torque to exist across the differential before slip occurs. It might allow a 40:60 or maybe 25:75 split to occur, thereby letting the high traction tire get more torque than the low traction side does before slippage occurs. This is enough to keep you moving probably 85-90% of the time*. That's the advantage of a limited slip differential - it will limit one-tire slip most of the time. But that's why the name is "limited" and not "eliminates-all" (that later category is a "locker").
So this leads us to brake-based traction control or "brake-based" LSD function. This is using the brake system to give the differential something to react against when tire traction won't suffice. When a tire wants to slip, the brake on that corner can step in and provide the differential a load to work off of. If the brake provides 200 lb-ft of resistance when the tire can only support 50, you are back to being able to support 250 lb-ft on the low traction side. So the high traction tire can get 250 as well. You are also back to being able to produce all 500 lb-ft that was potential from the engine in this scenario. You are not, however, delivering all 500 lb-ft to the road - 200 of it was absorbed by the brake system, so only 300 gets to the tires. But its better than the alternative where only 100 lb-ft gets to the road.
This is the drawback of brake-based intervention - it uses a negative (braking) load to allow a positive (drive) result. You are necessarily requiring loss of drive efficiency to move forward Its literally sucking power out of the driveline. You are probably also creating a lot of clunking and banging as the brake system tries to help, which is noticeable inside the vehicle. They also have the habit of eventually cutting the throttle back to get things in control, and that can happen at very inconvenient times.
OTOH, a good LSD will either a) allow the high traction tire to get enough to torque in the first place so as to not need the brakes to step in rob power, or b) if they do have to actuate, they won't need nearly as much intervention to achieve the desired result. So, in either case, the brake traction system will help in a pinch, but is by no means an end-all traction solution, and very much would benefit from being paired with an LSD. And good tires.
*based on experienced wild-assed guess
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^^^^So if I understand this correctly the Sahara with Trac Loc/Selec Trac had the brake traction and a true LSD which is why I found it a much more secure ride on snowy roads than the Rubicon. They both ran Hakka R2ās
my Maverick also has brake traction built into the AWD system. I know people here lose their minds when someone mentions Jeep but I still hope to add a true LSD to my Bronco at some point.
my Maverick also has brake traction built into the AWD system. I know people here lose their minds when someone mentions Jeep but I still hope to add a true LSD to my Bronco at some point.
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The rubicon also has 11ā wide tires, your Sahara has 9ā wide tires. The skinnier tire penetrates to the pavement better than the wider tire that will tend to float above the pavement. Itās a surface area thing. That can be the only perceivable difference you would have felt unless you were in a 55mph full throttle drift. None of those technologies would be in play. BLDās / LSDās / lockers / auto transfer case also useless, unless you can not judge when the road may or may not be slippery.
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Every time I see this post I think psychedelics
