Question: Baja Designs LP4 Ditch Light Mount

[theblackangus]

Hey all!

As I start on the adventure of building out my bronco on of the first things I want to do is get some ditch lights.
After having looked at many options I want to do the BD LP4 for that application.

Questions:
1. What lens/light type should I be looking at? I was thinking driving combo or the wide dispersion? (Totally not sure)
2. Does anyone make mounts that would allow them to be placed even with or below the hood level?

Thanks for everyone's help/suggestions!

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[4x4TruckLEDs.com]

Hey all!

As I start on the adventure of building out my bronco on of the first things I want to do is get some ditch lights.
After having looked at many options I want to do the BD LP4 for that application.

Questions:
1. What lens/light type should I be looking at? I was thinking driving combo or the wide dispersion? (Totally not sure)
2. Does anyone make mounts that would allow them to be placed even with or below the hood level?

Thanks for everyone's help/suggestions!

So I'd recommend SPOT for down range lighting or DRIVING/COMBO for a bit of everything. The Driving/Combo have both a SPOT and a WIDE pattern

As for mounts... that would be our kit. It places them as long as they can be since they sit on top of the cowl with our bracket.

We have a complete kit available here which includes the lights, required brackets (so they clear the antenna) and wiring harness: https://www.4x4truckleds.com/baja-designs-a-pillar-kit-for-2021-ford-bronco-w-kr-off-road-brackets/

Also use coupon code BRONCO6G and you'll save $$ on the kit. Essentially getting our brackets/harness for FREE.

 

[CalvinT]

I've been thinking of the BD S2 Sport for ditch lights. I'll be aiming them off to the side, so I won't need the power of the LP4 lights. Also the S2 are more compact and much less expensive. I'm going to get the wide dispersion. No need for the reach of a driving combo since the lights will be aimed off to the side.

DV8 makes an A pillar mount that will mount them below the hood line.

https://dv8offroad.com/collections/...cts/6th-gen-bronco-a-pillar-dual-light-mounts

And then there's this thread.

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...-pillar-for-ditch-lights.119290/#post-2605854

 

[theblackangus]

So I'd recommend SPOT for down range lighting or DRIVING/COMBO for a bit of everything. The Driving/Combo have both a SPOT and a WIDE pattern

As for mounts... that would be our kit. It places them as long as they can be since they sit on top of the cowl with our bracket.

We have a complete kit available here which includes the lights, required brackets (so they clear the antenna) and wiring harness: https://www.4x4truckleds.com/baja-designs-a-pillar-kit-for-2021-ford-bronco-w-kr-off-road-brackets/

Also use coupon code BRONCO6G and you'll save $$ on the kit. Essentially getting our brackets/harness for FREE.

Thanks for the reply!
However Im looking for below the hood line. So forward and down in front of the mirror mount.

 

[4x4TruckLEDs.com]

Thanks for the reply!
However Im looking for below the hood line. So forward and down in front of the mirror mount.

I don't recommend below the hood line for lighting. Unless it's off to the side as Calvin said but then an LP4 is WAY too big for that kind of lighting.

Where are you aiming these? If it's forward i'd recommend a light bar or fog kit.

Check out some options here: https://www.4x4truckleds.com/vehicle-specific/ford/ford-bronco/2021-bronco/

 

[theblackangus]

I've been thinking of the BD S2 Sport for ditch lights. I'll be aiming them off to the side, so I won't need the power of the LP4 lights. Also the S2 are more compact and much less expensive. I'm going to get the wide dispersion. No need for the reach of a driving combo since the lights will be aimed off to the side.

DV8 makes an A pillar mount that will mount them below the hood line.

https://dv8offroad.com/collections/...cts/6th-gen-bronco-a-pillar-dual-light-mounts

And then there's this thread.

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...-pillar-for-ditch-lights.119290/#post-2605854

Yeah something like those that will work with the LP4.
The DV8 one may be what I need.
Seen any others like this? I hate having company logos cut into the product.
<Looking at you RCI on your rock rails!!!!>

Thanks!

 

[Bigmoose]

Baja makes side blockers for the LP4 that help prevent the side leds from lighting up the hood. This is how i run them.

https://www.bajadesigns.com/lp4-ipt...lEpuVLQ2lHqRKjaSE-7i4KaZrdPd6hqeesnyRRsLn5Gj2

I love the LP4 on the mirror. I get light down range and the IPT leds give me some light off to the side. I run driving combos.

 

[theblackangus]

I don't recommend below the hood line for lighting. Unless it's off to the side as Calvin said but then an LP4 is WAY too big for that kind of lighting.

Where are you aiming these? If it's forward i'd recommend a light bar or fog kit.

Check out some options here: https://www.4x4truckleds.com/vehicle-specific/ford/ford-bronco/2021-bronco/

For aim its really is off to the side for ditch duty, I live in (big) deer country and would like the additional lighting in (BD Terms) Zone 2.

Later I will go for additional Zone 3,4,5 lighting.

Likely next step after this is for the mod bumper and the BD pocket lights for zone 3 + fog.

 

[4x4TruckLEDs.com]

For aim its really is off to the side for ditch duty, I live in (big) deer country and would like the additional lighting in (BD Terms) Zone 2.

Later I will go for additional Zone 3,4,5 lighting.

Likely next step after this is for the mod bumper and the BD pocket lights for zone 3 + fog.

Grab your kits from us when your ready as you save money and get to pick the patterns you want

we also stock the IPT side blockers as well: https://www.4x4truckleds.com/baja-designs-lp4-ipt-covers-pair

 

[Squirrel13]

If you eventually go LP4 you’ll live them. I have Squadron Pro’s in fog and white with the combo lens. Another pair of Pro white for ditch and I mounted them to the crash bars. Factory fog switch runs a pair of Squadron SAE white driving shown in the middle. All the lights and brackets are from Specialty Performance Products.

 

[Brian_B]

I thought the BluMak3D ones looked good at go at/below the hood line

The adjustability on them is lacking though - you’d want a broader coverage lens rather than a spot light probably

https://blumak3d.com/products/blumak3d-ditch-lights-for-ford-bronco

But if I were doing ditch lights this is probably top of my list.

 

[CalvinT]

I thought the BluMak3D ones looked good at go at/below the hood line

The adjustability on them is lacking though - you’d want a broader coverage lens rather than a spot light probably

https://blumak3d.com/products/blumak3d-ditch-lights-for-ford-bronco

But if I were doing ditch lights this is probably top of my list.

I was thinking of those but I'm hesitant about nylon so I did a little research.

They're probably using unfilled nylon (PA12 or PA6/66) which is popular with the 3D printing community.

Nylon will embrittle outdoors unless it's compounded with carbon black/HALS (Hindered Amine Light Stabilizers). Even then it won't last. Even then the HALS can be consumed over time in high heat/UV environments. However that could take a number of years.

The "UV-inhibited textured black finish will start chalking after a few years.

Nylon creeps under load. It's even worse when it's hot. This mean all bolt holes need metal sleeves to take the clamping force.

Nylon absorbs moisture which causes dimensional change.

With vibration and impact nylon will develop stress risers and then cracks.

I like the style of the BluMak3D mounts/housings. But they were designed to be easy to be manufactured.

If they want to stay with plastic but want a durable product, they need to switch to injection molding with a suitable plastic. 3D printed parts tend to be weaker along layer lines. Injection molded parts don't have that problem.

I like the look of these. But will get the DV8 product.

 

[bryan@blumak3d]

I was thinking of those but I'm hesitant about nylon so I did a little research.

They're probably using unfilled nylon (PA12 or PA6/66) which is popular with the 3D printing community.

Nylon will embrittle outdoors unless it's compounded with carbon black/HALS (Hindered Amine Light Stabilizers). Even then it won't last. Even then the HALS can be consumed over time in high heat/UV environments. However that could take a number of years.

The "UV-inhibited textured black finish will start chalking after a few years.

Nylon creeps under load. It's even worse when it's hot. This mean all bolt holes need metal sleeves to take the clamping force.

Nylon absorbs moisture which causes dimensional change.

With vibration and impact nylon will develop stress risers and then cracks.

I like the style of the BluMak3D mounts/housings. But they were designed to be easy to be manufactured.

If they want to stay with plastic but want a durable product, they need to switch to injection molding with a suitable plastic. 3D printed parts tend to be weaker along layer lines. Injection molded parts don't have that problem.

I like the look of these. But will get the DV8 product.

They're probably using unfilled nylon (PA12 or PA6/66) which is popular with the 3D printing community.

"Probably" isn't very fair. This copy/paste search result doesn't fully apply to our process and leads readers to believe that ours is just another bandwagon 3D printed product.

We use PA12 Nylon in the MJF process which has notable durability advantages over the more common and less expensive SLS process.

Nylon will embrittle outdoors unless it's compounded with carbon black/HALS (Hindered Amine Light Stabilizers). Even then it won't last. Even then the HALS can be consumed over time in high heat/UV environments. However, that could take a number of years.

We apply SEM trim coat (OEM Quality automotive grade UV stable paint) to exterior products rather than compounding any stabilizers (this is for the SLS process).

For the past few years, we have had numerous MJF products with this coating on our various personal vehicles that sit in the sun all day and get regular So Cal temps without fading. SEM can also be reapplied by the end user if there is ever a need to do so.

The "UV-inhibited textured black finish will start chalking after a few years.

Post your personal long-term test result for this. We will share ours.

Nylon creeps under load. It's even worse when it's hot. This mean all bolt holes need metal sleeves to take the clamping force.

This may be a problem for an ill-conceived product/poor design/improper manufacturing method. Blumak3D makes everything plenty strong and thick where it needs to be. and we test it.

We don't have anything with metal sleeves, but even if we did, is that really a problem?

Nylon absorbs moisture which causes dimensional change.

Not true for MJF products.

With vibration and impact nylon will develop stress risers and then cracks.

Application specific.
The products we manufacture are designed to handle the task at hand. We have a vast understanding of where MJF is feasible. Probably wouldn't build off road motor mounts with it but we've been running the same MJF airbox and intake snorkel (and many mounts/brackets throughout our National Championship winning American Iron Mustangs for a few seasons. (We race under the "AGENT 47" name). Underhood temps, all the vibrations...no cracks.

I like the style of the BluMak3D mounts/housings. But they were designed to be easy to be manufactured.

Actually, all of our products are designed to do the job at hand, and in ways that no other manufacturing technology can do. None of this is cheap, or easy.

If they want to stay with plastic but want a durable product, they need to switch to injection molding with a suitable plastic. 3D printed parts tend to be weaker along layer lines. Injection molded parts don't have that problem.

When the process and design are correct, three are no layer lines in MJF. The only time there are layer lines is when the printer is out of tune. If we see layer lines, that build goes into the trash and the machine gets repaired.

I'm not a religious man, but I will pray that you revisit Google or wherever you got this post from and ask if MJF is stronger than injection mold.


FYI-
MJF is what we do. Full time.

BluMak3D may be a new company on the Bronco scene, but our previous business (sold to retire and play with cars and make highly technical parts that people clearly don't understand) was a service bureau founded in 1990. Since then, all of the 3D printing options have come onto the scene and we have experience with them all. MJF was the only one good enough to build an entire division upon. That company still has (40) 5200 and 5210 MJF printers running 3 shifts daily. MJF printers are roughly $500K per ecosystem.

BluMak3Ds founder was the CEO and oversaw that company directly and was personally involved with the adoption and technical application of MJF on a daily basis. Much of what we learned from experience on site about MJF was then applied by HP as their standards based on our results.

BluMak3D designs, tests, and manufacturers all of our parts in house on our personal vehicles and stand behind the product. Nothing we make "should be injection molded".

MJF provides the ultimate combination of part quality/durability and build speed. When designed and built properly, the product itself blows away other printed plastics in regard to performance.

 

[CalvinT]

They're probably using unfilled nylon (PA12 or PA6/66) which is popular with the 3D printing community.

"Probably" isn't very fair. This copy/paste search result doesn't fully apply to our process and leads readers to believe that ours is just another bandwagon 3D printed product.

We use PA12 Nylon in the MJF process which has notable durability advantages over the more common and less expensive SLS process.

MJF is superior to SLS but that doesn't change the chemistry of the nylon you're using. The problems with creep, UV vulnerability and moisture absorption remain. MJF reduces printing defects but not the inherent polymer characteristics..

Nylon will embrittle outdoors unless it's compounded with carbon black/HALS (Hindered Amine Light Stabilizers). Even then it won't last. Even then the HALS can be consumed over time in high heat/UV environments. However, that could take a number of years.

We apply SEM trim coat (OEM Quality automotive grade UV stable paint) to exterior products rather than compounding any stabilizers (this is for the SLS process).

For the past few years, we have had numerous MJF products with this coating on our various personal vehicles that sit in the sun all day and get regular So Cal temps without fading. SEM can also be reapplied by the end user if there is ever a need to do so.

Paint can slow UV attack but doesn't prevent it if the coating is damaged. Carbon black/HALS is the industry standard for automotive -grade nylon exposed to the elements.

The "UV-inhibited textured black finish will start chalking after a few years.

Post your personal long-term test result for this. We will share ours.

I'm in Phoenix, I park outside. You're in California, Inland Empire almost as harsh. SEM is good paint, but it's still paint and not a stabilizer.

Nylon creeps under load. It's even worse when it's hot. This mean all bolt holes need metal sleeves to take the clamping force.

This may be a problem for an ill-conceived product/poor design/improper manufacturing method. Blumak3D makes everything plenty strong and thick where it needs to be. and we test it.

Creep is an inherent property of all polymers, not just nylon. It's caused by the long chain molecules slowly sliding past each other under sustained load. Heat makes it worse. No design will completely eliminate it.

Industry uses glass-filled polymers to deal with creep. But the products they use must be injection molded, not printed. PA66-GF30/35 (glass-nylon 6/6) and PBT-GF (polybutylene terephthalate, glass-filled) are two examples. FYI for those following this thread, Remington made a 22 rifle from 1959-1989 that used nylon 6/6 for the stock. The Dupont brand name is Zytel 101. It wasn't glass-filled.

Nylon absorbs moisture which causes dimensional change.

Not true for MJF products.

Not true. Moisture uptake is a chemical property of nylon. How it's fabricated doesn't make any difference. Your parts may be less porous than SLS parts, but PA12 still absorbs water (approx 1.5 - 2.0 % by weight at 50% RH). It will expand and lose stiffness.

With vibration and impact nylon will develop stress risers and then cracks.

Application specific.
The products we manufacture are designed to handle the task at hand. We have a vast understanding of where MJF is feasible. Probably wouldn't build off road motor mounts with it but we've been running the same MJF airbox and intake snorkel (and many mounts/brackets throughout our National Championship winning American Iron Mustangs for a few seasons. (We race under the "AGENT 47" name). Underhood temps, all the vibrations...no cracks.

Racing is a harsh environment. But a few racing seasons is different than being under desert sun and exposed to the elements for 10 years.

I like the style of the BluMak3D mounts/housings. But they were designed to be easy to be manufactured.

Actually, all of our products are designed to do the job at hand, and in ways that no other manufacturing technology can do. None of this is cheap, or easy.

Additive manufacturing has it's advantages. It allows you to create geometries that would be difficult to achieve any other way. And limitations. It prevents you from using materials that would be superior for this application. Plus you have to use a geometry that can be printed.

Additive manufacturing is great for low cost one-off and prototyping.

If they want to stay with plastic but want a durable product, they need to switch to injection molding with a suitable plastic. 3D printed parts tend to be weaker along layer lines. Injection molded parts don't have that problem.

When the process and design are correct, three are no layer lines in MJF. The only time there are layer lines is when the printer is out of tune. If we see layer lines, that build goes into the trash and the machine gets repaired.

MJF printing still isn't isotropic. Just because you can't see the layer lines doesn't mean they aren't there. They're microscopic. This means there are still differences in Z-direction strength. However, this isn't a problem if the part is strong enough for the application.

Please don't get me wrong. I really like the design of your mounts. I just wish you used a different polymer to make them. Maybe MJF PA11 (mass-black) with stainless steel crush sleeves. I'm sure HP has application engineers who would be glad to assist. I'd be interested in hearing what HP has to say about my comments.

Also to others following this thread. I tend to keep vehicles until the wheels fall off. This influences my decisions about what accessories I buy. If you're someone who plans on trading in a few years, by all means consider the BluMak3D mount. I think it's the best looking mount on the market. And it's a perfect match for the lights I'll be buying.

 

[Brian_B]

I read all of that... interesting on both sides.

I'd still buy 'em.

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