Differentials and axles differences strengths

[Fordified1]

I have gathered there are basically 3 different diffs under Broncos. 190, 220, and 230. Guessing this represents the ring gear diameter in millimeters.

Does a Black Diamond non SAS with 4:46 ? gearing have the same strength diffs as a SAS with 4.7 gearing? I do understand I won’t get a front locker and for what I’ll be doing that’s ok. I have a buggy on portals I crawl with.

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[Tricky Mike]

Close. 190, 210, 220, and yes, ring gear in millimeters.

A 4.46 BD will have the same strength rear as a 4.70 Sasquatch but a weaker front.

 

[CarbonSteel]

It does represent the ring gear in millimeters and to map it backwards:

M190 = Dana 35 (while it could be semantics, the D35 is typically a M186)
M220 = Dana 44
M235 = Dana 50 (this seems to be a new offering specifically for the Raptor as the axle that is above a D44 would be a D60).

Dana Advantek ring and pinion gears are the same strength no matter what gear ratio they represent--in the same axle size. Historically, you will hear people say that lower the gear ratios (higher numerically) that the R&P is weaker versus a higher gear ratio. Dana does not specify a different torque rating per ratio, so they are all the same strength and Dana explains it here.

Where the "weakness" comes into play is case/axle deflection whereas installing larger tires provides additional traction which is then transferred to the axle housing. This in turn can case the pinion gear to move away from the ring gear limiting tooth engagement and thereby breaking the teeth.

In addition, the extra torque that is applied can either cause the front axle CVs fail or the front or rear axle shaft twists permanently. We saw the housing deflection or axle twists happen in the Wrangler which has the same axles (though a solid axle in the front), but an engine with far less HP/TQ than the 2.7L in the Bronco, ergo it is more likely to happen in the Bronco when larger tires are installed.

 

[Tech Tim]

M186 is the Dana 30 (found in Jeeps, not Broncos)
M190 is the Dana 35 front
M210 is the smaller D44 front
M220 is the larger D44 rear
M235 is the Braptor D50 rear.

 

[Fordified1]

Exactly the info I hadn’t been able to find. So what exactly does the 2024 2.3 automatic Black Diamond come with (drivetrain wise) vs adding the SAS package? I already understand the ratio differences and one locker vs 2)

 

[zuke]

Exactly the info I hadn’t been able to find. So what exactly does the 2024 2.3 automatic Black Diamond come with (drivetrain wise) vs adding the SAS package? I already understand the ratio differences and one locker vs 2)

It would have an M190 Front and M210 Rear, 4.46 gearing.

 

[Tech Tim]

Non-Sas Black Diamond:
M190 front and M220 rear.
4x4 part-time transfer case w/ 2.72:1 low range


Sasquatch Black Diamond:
M210 front and the M220 rear with electrically locking differentials
4x4 part-time + 4A (or AWD) mode with 3.06:1 low range

 

[Brian_B]

I appreciate this thread, I learned something. Thanks!

 

[Fordified1]

More history of my experience. I grew up with the Ford 8”, 9”, and 8.8”. The 9” and 8.8 could either have 28 or 31 spline axles. Are there variations in axle diameters within the different Dana series’ ?

 

[userdude]

Anybody know why it's Dana 44 and Dana 60 (the number part)?

 

[Aonarch]

Dana publishes the data on torque load limits etc.

Let me try to find it.

But yeah M190 FDU is like a Dana 35, and we are not talking about a Dana 35 for 30 years ago, a modern 35, much stronger. 33s all day long, 35s are ok with open diff, 37s are not advised...

M210 is the Badlands and Sasquatch front drive unit, and is equivalent to a modern Dana 44, can handle 35s all day long, 37s are ok but I'd avoid too much front locker. I personally know people with tons of offroad miles on 37s and 38s without issue, so grain of salt on both sides.

M220 is the rear axle and is also a Dana 44.

EDIT:

Here is a good post:
https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...les-tough-enough-to-turn-35s.2599/#post-83679

 

[Cardboardbronco]

It does represent the ring gear in millimeters and to map it backwards:

M190 = Dana 35 (while it could be semantics, the D35 is typically a M186)
M220 = Dana 44
M230 = Dana 50 (this seems to be a new offering specifically for the Raptor as the axle that is above a D44 would be a D60).

Dana Advantek ring and pinion gears are the same strength no matter what gear ratio they represent. Historically, you will hear people say that lower the gear ratios (higher numerically) that the R&P is weaker versus a higher gear ratio. Dana does not specify a different torque rating per ratio, so they are all the same strength and Dana explains it here.

Where the "weakness" comes into play is case/axle deflection whereas installing larger tires provides additional traction which is then transferred to the axle housing. This in turn can case the pinion gear to move away from the ring gear limiting tooth engagement and thereby breaking the teeth.

In addition, the extra torque that is applied can either cause the front axle CVs fail or the front or rear axle shaft twists permanently. We saw the housing deflection or axle twists happen in the Wrangler which has the same axles (though a solid axle in the front), but an engine with far less HP/TQ than the 2.7L in the Bronco, ergo it is more likely to happen in the Bronco when larger tires are installed.

Would you say tire size would have a bigger impact on potential weakness than tire weight? IE light weight 35s vs 33s that may be heavier or just as heavy as some 35s.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Would you say tire size would have a bigger impact on potential weakness than tire weight? IE light weight 35s vs 33s that may be heavier or just as heavy as some 35s.

Weight is not the issue--the larger the OD, the harder it will be to break traction and therefore the force is applied to the axle (housing and shafts) instead.

 

[userdude]

Weight is not the issue--the larger the OD, the harder it will be to break traction and therefore the force is applied to the axle (housing and shafts) instead.

What is OD? I'm thinking contact patch, but obviously the abbrev don't match...

 

[CarbonSteel]

What is OD? I'm thinking contact patch, but obviously the abbrev don't match...

Outside Diameter; e.g. it is easier to spin a 33" tire versus a 37" tire.

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