Damage while using winch on improperly installed Rough Country High Mount

[MillerAndCheeto]

OK....so this is highly embarrassing and I feel like a total idiot but I need to come clean. At least some good discussion became of it and my Bronco is undamaged. I still believe after seeing the DV8 bumper video, this scare, and how Ford does it from the factory, that LOD plates or similar are wise.

I got it dissembled and it turns out this is 100% on me.

I left out some very crucial parts. I don't know how I missed them, but when I went digging through the old box they were there, shiny and new.

Thanks for the update! Sorry that this happened but man, this thread blew up with some super in-depth discussion.

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[BroncoJoerg]

Well back in the day we never bought aftermarket bumpers either. We would take off the stock bumper, extend the frame horns outward. Mount the winch plate on, then made the bumper around the winch. Sometimes it came out looking cool, sometimes not, after a few beers everything looked awesome. Either way it took a beating and kept wanting more. LOL!!

I had one like that on my CJ5. It could definitely take a beating, and looked ... well, OK. It also weighed about the same as the rest of the Jeep.

 

[Tex]

The warn zeon platinum won’t fit in any rc variant
But does fit in the lobo off-road hidden mount….

If I had it to do over again, I would've gone with the Lobo.
Still actually considering it, along with the high mount IC...surely someone would want a lightly used RC mount at a discount.

@Tex - for what it’s worth, the original single piece plate has those tabs. Took some digging - because I couldn’t quite remember. But, between @NorthShoreBronco original video (around the same time I installed mine) and this image from the original PDF - it’s safe to say that didn’t change. Now I’m just curious on what changes in the filler plates and skid plates that they’re possibly having to send an entire kit so that I can replace the skid…but, I’ll shut up now and let this thread continue without further discussion of the hidden mount…

Definitely a move to streamline manufacturing in that case, it looks like a pain to bend and get everything right.

 

[NorthShoreBronco]

That brings up my question about how the hidden winch mounts and it’s weak points. I’ve been dorking out on this thread since it started since this is all new to me. But, I wasn’t affording a new bumper when mine came with the modular (one of the reasons I chose BD) and not a fan of the underbite - the hidden was the only choice at the time. Exploring trails solo a majority of the time - I needed some piece of mind - but, threads like this are interesting to me to learn fail points and what to look for if/when something goes wrong.

Oh if the hidden winch mount had a weak point I would of found it by now. I've winched myself and other rigs out a few dozen times this snow wheeling season. It's solid. Don't worry about it.

 

[Dads_bronze_bronco]

So spent time looking at both the Warn bumper and the Ford / Warn winch kit. The interesting thing on the bumper is, even though it locates the winch into the bumper it adds brackets. And on both the brackets reinforce the bumper mounting plate, and also have a "clevis pin" bolt underneath the frame that further reinforces the system (guessing stops rotation).

Bumper: (Notice the C shaped spacer welded onto the plate to keep from crushing the crumple zones on the frame. Also bolted through the frame so double sheer.)

Factory Winch Plate:

FWIW the Bumper has a pretty slick control pack relocation bracket, though it would be a bad spot if you spend a lot of time in the mud:

Net is, we effectively need A-L in a kit (2 E's and 4 H's, 1ea of the rest):

 

[da_jokker]

I have a totally different bumper (BAMF) and have pretty easy access to the rails, especially the outsides. Starting to wonder if mounting the LODs would be an easy install simply to help support any vertical forces on the winch.... Of course it sounds like now there should be some sort of spacer to prevent them from crushing in the crumple zone.

 

[swooshdave]

I assume that @DV8offroad is following this closely.

 

[JonDW29]

I have a totally different bumper (BAMF) and have pretty easy access to the rails, especially the outsides. Starting to wonder if mounting the LODs would be an easy install simply to help support any vertical forces on the winch.... Of course it sounds like now there should be some sort of spacer to prevent them from crushing in the crumple zone.

Take a look at the install instructions for the brackets. You'll have to take the bumper off as the bolts don't extend through the frame tube. Four bolts per frame tube with the nuts inside if that makes sense.

 

[Tricky Dick]

I assume that @DV8offroad is following this closely.

I'm thinking they already know what went wrong and have a solution in progress.

 

[PWillette]

I have a totally different bumper (BAMF) and have pretty easy access to the rails, especially the outsides. Starting to wonder if mounting the LODs would be an easy install simply to help support any vertical forces on the winch.... Of course it sounds like now there should be some sort of spacer to prevent them from crushing in the crumple zone.

Just got my BAMF winch bumper installed. The main reason I went with BAMF is the location of the winch drum in relation to the frame horns...basically the drums sits on the same centerline as the horns. Doesn't totally elimante the possibilty of extreme winching angles but certainly minimizes any chance of added leverage to the horns.

 

[PWillette]

OK....so this is highly embarrassing and I feel like a total idiot but I need to come clean. At least some good discussion became of it and my Bronco is undamaged. I still believe after seeing the DV8 bumper video, this scare, and how Ford does it from the factory, that LOD plates or similar are wise.

I got it dissembled and it turns out this is 100% on me.

I left out some very crucial parts. I don't know how I missed them, but when I went digging through the old box they were there, shiny and new.

So did you actually bend the horns? After pulling my MOD bumper last weekend I was thing you may have actually bent the bumper?

 

[swooshdave]

I'm thinking they already know what went wrong and have a solution in progress.

I don't assume much these days because I would have assumed they would have done their research upfront.

 

[Tricky Dick]

So did you actually bend the horns? After pulling my MOD bumper last weekend I was thing you may have actually bent the bumper?

The only thing that bent was the RC mount due to improper installation. The horns and bumper are apparently still straight.

 

[huey]

The only thing that bent was the RC mount due to improper installation. The horns and bumper are apparently still straight.

that's great news!
@Tricky Dick let me know if you need any frame measurements. I can verify for you

 

[kevin.gt]

I'll admit I overreacted and immediately pulled my apex winch and RC mount a couple nights ago. All the posts about leverage made me uncomfortable using it without reinforcements, and I've been itching to figure out how much of my rake was caused by the winch anyways (front fender flare is only a half inch higher after removing winch and mount if anyone cares). Now I'm struggling with where to go from here.

facts:
- frame horns can bend under extreme loads (like being towed off road with nose in the air with a lot of abrupt jolts)
- frame horns did not bend using the RC mount to get out of the snow
- ford's mount reinforces the frame (along with a couple other bumpers)
- the recovery points are bolted to the frame horns in the same way without reinforcement

assumptions:
- the angle of the RC mount may put too much twist on the frame and bend it, but we haven't seen that yet
- choosing a mount that puts the winch in line with the frame may mitigate the risk of frame damage, at the cost of approach angle
- adding reinforcements may affect crumple zone, but may mitigate risk of RC high mount twisting the frame

Am I missing anything?

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