Bronco

[Bmadda]

I don’t think Broncos have an input on manual transmissions for gear position. They don’t have up shift lights or rev matching on downshifts so there’s no reason for a gear input on a manual. I could be wrong, I would have to check when I get back to work.

They absolutely do have a gear position sensor. It's on the LH side of the trans.

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[Broncobadlands2023]

 

[Zerolife33]

So I am no expert off roader, however, I would hardly say I'm green. This happened today and I am at a loss, possibly financially, but more importantly I don't know what actually went wrong. I have wheeled plenty of times in this Bronco since Aug 2022, I have been up this hill...successfully twice before...with plenty of witnesses. I have been up many other hills, in fact this wasn't even the steepest today, as I had done a 39 degree hill earlier, this one was likely upper 20's, lower 30's. I have stalled the Bronco before, it's always restarted before and I've never lost brakes no matter at what angle and what grade. So I really have no idea what caused this. It stalled out around a 1:00 in and I lost power to everything. I did like everyone else yelling brakes, LOL! Tailgate is shot, bumper is shot, driver mirror also shot. It appears that the quarter panels and hardtop were unharmed.

Concerning repair, yes this is posted, either Ford or my insurance will cover it or they won't. If Ford won't I will try my insurance, if this is excluded from coverage, shame on me for not having this coverage, I will not commit insurance fraud in case anyone calls me stupid for posting this. My real aim is to figure out what went wrong. Total damage best I can figure is roughly $3000-4000. Oddly the real rip off is the side mirror based on my quick research.

I was rear ended almost a year ago now in my 21 Wildtrak.... Tailgate, Spare, Camera, bumper, exhaust, quarter panel, and more.... It was roughly a little over 10k and I went without my Bronco for about 3 months. Good luck sir!

 

[Zero Options]

It probably wouldn’t have helped here; it looks like something went very wrong, but there is supposed to be a start in gear function similar to jeep for when you stall going uphill in 4L. I have not tried it. Does anyone have experience with using it? It may be helpful in a similar situation if things are working properly.

 

[BricknoseBronco]

So, would the solution have been to START IN GEAR and hitting the START/STOP button?

As I mentioned, others have said while its in gear, while moving, engine off, that you can not restart it while its moving. So I was wondering if it was in neutral, with the clutch pressed in while moving, if it would start.

A safety feature? I doubt the op feels it is a "safety festure". It is definitely the way the software is programmed tho. For the life of me I cannot understand why it would be "unsafe" to restart a rolling vehicle, as long as the clutch is fully depressed. This is also why 6g Broncos can't be push started. Makes no sense to me at all. I really think Ford should address this!

I couldn't agree more with you! I wasnt defending Ford or anything. I'm was just making an assumption on Fords part why they would do such a dumb thing. And know the OP also disagrees with this. Definitely needs to be updated to allow for restart on an offroad vehicle especially if the brakes can stop working like happened to the OP. Way more of a safety issue the way it currently is.

 

[Bmadda]

As I mentioned, others have said while its in gear, while moving, engine off, that you can not restart it while its moving. So I was wondering if it was in neutral, with the clutch pressed in while moving, if it would start.


I couldn't agree more with you! I wasnt defending Ford or anything. I'm was just making an assumption on Fords part why they would do such a dumb thing. And know the OP also disagrees with this. Definitely needs to be updated to allow for restart on an offroad vehicle especially if the brakes can stop working like happened to the OP. Way more of a safety issue the way it currently is.

I think he meant the "crank in gear" feature, which Bronco DOES have, but is kinda clumsy to use I think. You gotta wait for the message to come up on the dash saying "do you want to start in gear?" then hit ok, then hold brake and hit start button. That really woulda been the best option for the OP at the time, but I have found that the feature is so awkward to use that every time I coulda used it I end up doing exactly what the OP did and restart the normal way, or take advantage of the auto restart when I hit the clutch. Toyota puts a button just for activating crank in gear...that is far more intuitive to me. Wasn't accusing you of defending Ford or anything...my post was meant to illustrate how the software is programmed in a way that interferes w/the driver's normal thought process!

 

[BroncoJoerg]

Unless it's an ABS failure

That should have shown up as a code. Has anyone looked at the code history yet?

 

[BroncoJoerg]

Good driving to keep that from turning into a real disaster. Have you considered filing a report with NTSB? No power and no brakes is dangerous off road but imagine if that happens in a high traffic intersection. Whatever computer glitch resulted for the combination of inputs needs to be discovered and patched before someone dies.

Good luck on your repairs and damn good job mitigating the damage.

This is the kind of thinking that got us a seat belt clip recall.

 

[BroncoJoerg]

Anyone who crawls with a std shift Bronco should read this thread. Being prepared for a similar situation is a big deal to prevent panic. Dumping the clutch in 1st gear and/or applying the parking brake would have at least slowed it down significantly. Engine would have rotated backwards but so what.
Also, A hand emergency brake would have been easier to use than the stupid electronic one.
All these computer controlled bells and whistles are not necessarily a good thing.

They aren’t a bad thing either. As you point out it’s just different. The old dogs among us just need to learn some new tricks.

 

[FloridaBurgBronco]

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies. I think a lot of these were very helpful in trying to figure some things out. I just want to make clear what happened to answer some questions, maybe this will help in the future, maybe not, hopefully with these experiences, despite being painful, maybe we can learn.

Sequence of events.

First off, let me just say what was weird. I have done this hill twice before and I have stalled before, both in 4L and 4H and never had this happen. Now maybe something was different, maybe not, like maybe the incline at stall was higher, but I'm pretty sure I stalled earlier in the day on a 39 degree hill (this one was upper 20's/low 30's), and I was in 4L with both lockers on and the sway bar DC, "full war package" so to speak.

-Went up, there is a rock that is difficult to traverse, but had before.

-I was trying to get another better angle.

-I did shift from C to 1st to get more wheel speed versus engine rpm. I'm not a "send it" kind of guy, I usually like slow and steady, but sometimes momentum can be your friend, even if it often is not. Please pay little attention to the scraping sounds, I have enough skid plates to armor a WW2 battleship.

-I think maybe I didn't feather the clutch just right in 1st and that's when I stalled. Not positive, but seems likely, it happened pretty quickly.

-I think at that point it stalled and I may have lost all vacuum pressure for the brakes and the engine would not start.

-I rolled back with the clutch pushed in and the foot on the brake, so using both feet for the brake and clutch, but unlike every single other time I've ever had to auto-start the vehicle, it simply did not this time, so the issue wasn't a direct brake failure to be clear. There was no power to the brakes and I could not manually push hard enough to engage the brakes.

-At this point the Bronco rolls back without me being able to stop it. Also at this point, I am stunned because it won't restart and am in WTH mode. Passenger side hits a rock, that's the pop up in the video, which does two things, destroys the bumper and thankfully actually slows it down...a little.

-The rest of the way, I am trying to restart, so I am pressing again, both clutch and brake in. Aftermath was kind of funny people yelling brakes, sorry silver lining joke, because I already knew to do that.

-I probably hit the smaller tree at I would guess was 10-15mph. I think the tree or rather the tree hitting the spare tire saved the body and hardtop. And because it was tight, I lost the driver mirror to incidental contact as I rolled down the hill.

So here are some questions/thoughts. As I read the comments, maybe there was nothing wrong with the Bronco, maybe it did what it was supposed to do, like it doesn't start in certain situations. So, I thought maybe I just reacted too slow and I'm all to blame for this. And I should have popped the clutch and jumped started the manual transmission vehicle to regain power brakes. But I saw some folks mention that you can't roll start a 6G Bronco, funny enough after reading that, I called me kids out to help me push and try and it does not, WTH Ford, that's one of the advantages of a manual, a dead battery will never stop you...sort of.

So, it seems I could not have started it again, therefore never giving me brake power back.

So, could I have put it in gear and popped the clutch and it may have just stopped there on the hill? I mean, I guess what I'm saying is, what is the fix if you lose brake power and can't pop the clutch to restart?

I think about the new Defender commerical where they back up to the ledge and stop, well what happens when you do that in a Bronco and it stalls? Am I just supposed to jump out quickly before I go over the edge, geez. Obviously extreme example, but nonetheless possible based on events two days ago.

OH ONE LAST THING, IT DID HAVE A SERVICE VEHICLE SOON LIGHT ON AND SAID 4X4 DISABLED AFTER THE ACCIDENT. At this time, I needed 4X4 to at least get out of the park, so I turned the vehicle off, locked it, unlocked it, restarted it and the service vehicle soon light was gone and 4X4 was enabled again. I wanted to keep the codes in there but I wasn't going to keep the vehicle on until Monday morning taking it to Ford, plus they didn't occur until AFTER the accident.

My hope is this clear up some questions that people have had.

 

[FloridaBurgBronco]

They aren’t a bad thing either. As you point out it’s just different. The old dogs among us just need to learn some new tricks.

True, but a hand brake is a good quick grab away, not something an electronic one probably could provide. I do agree that some if nto many of the new items are good, but this situation maybe begs for an old style hand brake that is mechancial in nature. Not as good as power brakes, but it is a brake. And thanks for your kind words, much of that was luck, but happy to have some...at least a little. It could have been worse in many ways.

 

[2door]

That should have shown up as a code. Has anyone looked at the code history yet?

There might have been no error code. ABS worked as it should and was simply tricked by the combination of several factors: the loose surface, locked rear diff, and the front left wheel that lost traction right before the Bronco began to roll downhill.

 

[LMF Bronc]

So I am no expert off roader, however, I would hardly say I'm green. This happened today and I am at a loss, possibly financially, but more importantly I don't know what actually went wrong. I have wheeled plenty of times in this Bronco since Aug 2022, I have been up this hill...successfully twice before...with plenty of witnesses. I have been up many other hills, in fact this wasn't even the steepest today, as I had done a 39 degree hill earlier, this one was likely upper 20's, lower 30's. I have stalled the Bronco before, it's always restarted before and I've never lost brakes no matter at what angle and what grade. So I really have no idea what caused this. It stalled out around a 1:00 in and I lost power to everything. I did like everyone else yelling brakes, LOL! Tailgate is shot, bumper is shot, driver mirror also shot. It appears that the quarter panels and hardtop were unharmed.

Concerning repair, yes this is posted, either Ford or my insurance will cover it or they won't. If Ford won't I will try my insurance, if this is excluded from coverage, shame on me for not having this coverage, I will not commit insurance fraud in case anyone calls me stupid for posting this. My real aim is to figure out what went wrong. Total damage best I can figure is roughly $3000-4000. Oddly the real rip off is the side mirror based on my quick research.

So totally unrelated to the thrust of your post, but I noticed when you were trying to get over the rock at one point you apply the clutch and you can hear 4-5 quick click noises. I have the same noise on my 2 door manual Sasquatch, seems to be coming from the front left possibly transfer case. I get it when in 4wd (usually 4lo) and I have the drivetrain loaded up then released such as by applying the clutch. I may also get it when going over larger obstacles where the suspension compresses and rebounds. Are you experiencing the same symptoms?

edit- noise occurs at 1:04 in video

 

[BroncoJoerg]

There might have been no error code. ABS worked as it should and was simply tricked by the combination of several factors: the loose surface, locked rear diff, and the front left wheel that lost traction right before the Bronco began to roll downhill.

So, not a failure, but a "trick" situation? I'm thinking I need to take my Bronco out and run some tests to see how it reacts in different scenarios. I have an automatic, so I suspect it will be different in the same scenario than the manual. I'd prefer to learn under a controlled condition though!

 

[FloridaBurgBronco]

So totally unrelated to the thrust of your post, but I noticed when you were trying to get over the rock at one point you apply the clutch and you can hear 4-5 quick click noises. I have the same noise on my 2 door manual Sasquatch, seems to be coming from the front left possibly transfer case. I get it when in 4wd (usually 4lo) and I have the drivetrain loaded up then released such as by applying the clutch. I may also get it when going over larger obstacles where the suspension compresses and rebounds. Are you experiencing the same symptoms?

edit- noise occurs at 1:04 in video

Yes, that seems to be a common sound, usually in 4L, it's likes it's when it's transitioning from one gear or maybe load to the next. I think I'm not describing that well enough. I just assumed that sound was normal as that sound likely has nothing to do with what happened here. Some have asked about it, but like you, that is a sound I have heard many times before, all without incident.

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