7MT Should I feather when I down shift?

[zyglyrox]

I don’t think I’ve driven a manual and NOT rev-matched every shift I could, in any vehicle tbh. The Bronco is geared decently long and I will match RPMs so it doesn’t buck.

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[CalvinT]

I don’t think I’ve driven a manual and NOT rev-matched every shift I could, in any vehicle tbh. The Bronco is geared decently long and I will match RPMs so it doesn’t buck.

You must be doing something wrong if your Bronco is bucking when you shift.

It's simple. Let off the gas when you push in the clutch. Shift. Let out the clutch while easing the gas pedal back to its former position. Clutch pedal and throttle move at the same speed. You get a smooth shift and no bucking. If you have bucking you're letting the clutch out too fast. I've been driving a manual for over 50 years and that's always worked for me.

Properly done a passenger won't feel the shift.

Down shifting with a non-synchromesh transmission is a different story.

 

[Brian_B]

There are a few situations where bucking hard to avoid, but they seem to be rare. Normal driving, yeah, what @CalvinT says is right on - shouldn't be an issue provided you are easy on the clutch.

Like 4Lo trying to go in reverse up hill over crap after you started down the wrong side of NopeNopeNope - sometimes hard to keep the Bronco from bucking. Just gotta ride the clutch a bit sometimes

I know heel-toe is a different thing, but I admit, for the longest time, I thought it was just what Calvin describes - using both feet to work the clutch and accelerator in equal but opposite directions when shifting, at roughly the same rate of control speed.

 

[UncleBrad]

You must be doing something wrong if your Bronco is bucking when you shift.

It's simple. Let off the gas when you push in the clutch. Shift. Let out the clutch while easing the gas pedal back to its former position. Clutch pedal and throttle move at the same speed. You get a smooth shift and no bucking. If you have bucking you're letting the clutch out too fast. I've been driving a manual for over 50 years and that's always worked for me.

Properly done a passenger won't feel the shift.

Down shifting with a non-synchromesh transmission is a different story.

What he said!

 

[CalvinT]

I know heel-toe is a different thing, but I admit, for the longest time, I thought it was just what Calvin describes - using both feet to work the clutch and accelerator in equal but opposite directions when shifting, at roughly the same rate of control speed.

After reading this thread, I spent yesterday paying attention to what my feet were doing when I shifted. I hadn't paid that much attention for quite some time. I just thought "shift" and it happened. Sort of automatic. Funny thing. Once my foot didn't depress the throttle when releasing the clutch. But the situation didn't require it and it was still a smooth shift.

Heel-toe is entirely different. My dad wouldn't let me have a driver's license unit I was proficient. I have to admit to using the "hill assist" feature once I learned to trust it. Have to remember it won't hold you for more than a few seconds. I won't use it off-road.

 

[zyglyrox]

Are we all discussing the same thing? Because there’s no way youre

You must be doing something wrong if your Bronco is bucking when you shift.

It's simple. Let off the gas when you push in the clutch. Shift. Let out the clutch while easing the gas pedal back to its former position. Clutch pedal and throttle move at the same speed. You get a smooth shift and no bucking. If you have bucking you're letting the clutch out too fast. I've been driving a manual for over 50 years and that's always worked for me.

Properly done a passenger won't feel the shift.

Down shifting with a non-synchromesh transmission is a different story.

You must be doing something wrong if your Bronco is bucking when you shift.

It's simple. Let off the gas when you push in the clutch. Shift. Let out the clutch while easing the gas pedal back to its former position. Clutch pedal and throttle move at the same speed. You get a smooth shift and no bucking. If you have bucking you're letting the clutch out too fast. I've been driving a manual for over 50 years and that's always worked for me.

Properly done a passenger won't feel the shift.

Down shifting with a non-synchromesh transmission is a different story.

you don’t even bring the revs back up? i find that strange because i don’t rely on the synchros to match speeds.

 

[CalvinT]

The synchros have only one purpose. To prevent gears from grinding when you shift from one gear to another. They're not really needed when upshifting. You can usually upshift a transmission without synchromesh without grinding. You can't normally downshift one without grinding unless you double clutch. (see paragraph below)

Before the introduction of constant mesh transmissions many racing transmissions did not have synchromesh. Synchromesh slows down shift speeds when upshifting. Back then non synchromesh transmissions were also called crash boxes.

There is a way to downshift a non-synchromesh transmission without double clutching. This is where rev matching comes in. Instead of double clutching. Put pressure on the shift lever as you ease off the gas. Once the gears are unloaded you can move into neutral. Then rev the engine to close to the needed RPM for the lower gear, then push the lever into the next lower gear slot. When your RPMs match the needed speed, the gears will mesh and you can push the shift lever the rest of the way for full engagement..

I used to do that when I was a teenager, I know it works. Other than that I con't see any use for rev matching. If someone feels adventurous, they can try shifting their Bronco's manual transmission without using the clutch. Unless the electronics get in the way you can do it. But you also risk breaking something.

That's something else I used to do with my dad's pickup. It had a pushbutton for the starter and no cutout switch. And it would start in first gear. I was able to drive all over town without using the clutch. Just careful use of the throttle and gear lever.

You say you don't rely on synchros to match speeds. That statement indicates that we may be using two different definitions for synchros. You don't have any choice on using synchros, or synchromesh. They're inherent in the transmission design.

https://www.carparts.com/blog/how-d...qQhrrYvBqQEplo6lQ55PqLdcGSmzzUg45hL23QuwCgDqW

The synchros have nothing to do with engine revs. That's what a clutch is for.

 

[UncleBrad]

The synchros have only one purpose. To prevent gears from grinding when you shift from one gear to another. They're not really needed when upshifting. You can usually upshift a transmission without synchromesh without grinding. You can't normally downshift one without grinding unless you double clutch. (see paragraph below)

Before the introduction of constant mesh transmissions many racing transmissions did not have synchromesh. Synchromesh slows down shift speeds when upshifting. Back then non synchromesh transmissions were also called crash boxes.

There is a way to downshift a non-synchromesh transmission without double clutching. This is where rev matching comes in. Instead of double clutching. Put pressure on the shift lever as you ease off the gas. Once the gears are unloaded you can move into neutral. Then rev the engine to close to the needed RPM for the lower gear, then push the lever into the next lower gear slot. When your RPMs match the needed speed, the gears will mesh and you can push the shift lever the rest of the way for full engagement..

I used to do that when I was a teenager, I know it works. Other than that I con't see any use for rev matching. If someone feels adventurous, they can try shifting their Bronco's manual transmission without using the clutch. Unless the electronics get in the way you can do it. But you also risk breaking something.

That's something else I used to do with my dad's pickup. It had a pushbutton for the starter and no cutout switch. And it would start in first gear. I was able to drive all over town without using the clutch. Just careful use of the throttle and gear lever.

You say you don't rely on synchros to match speeds. That statement indicates that we may be using two different definitions for synchros. You don't have any choice on using synchros, or synchromesh. They're inherent in the transmission design.

https://www.carparts.com/blog/how-d...qQhrrYvBqQEplo6lQ55PqLdcGSmzzUg45hL23QuwCgDqW

The synchros have nothing to do with engine revs. That's what a clutch is for.

You're speaking wisdom.

 

[heavyD]

Driving a manual transmission is so easy even my ex who was as dumb as a brick could do it. Why do threads like this make it sound so hard?

 

[CalvinT]

Driving a manual transmission is so easy even my ex who was as dumb as a brick could do it. Why do threads like this make it sound so hard?

Because they all seem to be self taught or are learning from the internet.

heavyD, this also shows you're a good teacher.

As heavyD says, it's pretty simple.
Push in the clutch, put the transmission if first gear. Let out the clutch while giving some gas. Accelerate. Repeat for each following gear. If you kill the engine you either didn't give it enough gas or you let the clutch out too quickly. Probably the second.

Downshifting is the same except you don't give as much gas and don't accelerate.

People worry about matching revs, etc. No need if you're driving a car made since the 1940 (or earlier) and you're not racing. Turn off your computer. Find someone with grey hair to teach you the proper way to drive.

I've watched guys giving their too much gas and slipping the clutch way too much in order to compensate. They didn't have a teacher.

 

[crenca]

The 'rev hang' programed into these EcoBoost motors (for better emissions) can be felt on a moderately fast-to-fast upshift but there is nothing to be done about it short of slowing your shift.

This behavior is more significant IMO off road, where it causes a bothersome "I let off the gas but revs/mph is not coming down" lurch, though it does not seem as bad as the similiar issue in the automatic transmission Bronco's...

 

[CalvinT]

The 'rev hang' programed into these EcoBoost motors (for better emissions) can be felt on a moderately fast-to-fast upshift but there is nothing to be done about it short of slowing your shift.

This behavior is more significant IMO off road, where it causes a bothersome "I let off the gas but revs/mph is not coming down" lurch, though it does not seem as bad as the similiar issue in the automatic transmission Bronco's...

The "rev hang" is irritating. It's probably my biggest reason for getting a tune. Now I know why Ford did it.

 

[zyglyrox]

Yeah, feel like we’re discussing two different things the same way. You say you don’t “rev-match” but you described what I was doing… while down shifting, matching the revs?

 

[CalvinT]

I don't rev match when downshifting if I'm slowing down. I'm usually braking while downshifting and don't want to bother with heel/toe. When I let out the clutch the engine is forced to speed up. This has never caused me a problem.

But I don't use downshifting to control speed. I'm not on a race track. I only do it to keep from killing the engine. So I only downshift when engine RPMs are below 2000 or so. If I was racing I'd use downshifting to control speed instead of the brakes.

The only other time I downshift is when I need a lower gear to accelerate. I may rev match when downshifting to pass, (my foot isn't on the brake) but I've never given it a lot of thought. I'll have to pay attention to what my feet do next time I downshift to pass..

I can't tell you exactly what I do because it became a reflex decades ago. About the only time I pay close attention to to clutch/throttle/brake is if I'm on a difficult slope. But I don't pay attention during routine driving.

 

[crzyhawk]

I've owned manual transmissions exclusively since I got out of the Army. In the last 20 years, it's 2 Mustangs and now my Bronco, so I'm not dumping them with lots of wear and relatively low mileage. I still have the 2008 GT, and it's got 230k miles on the TR3650. The 06 V6 I owned before that I bought new labor day weekend in 2005, and I put 140k on the T5 in it before I picked up the GT and gave the V6 to my sister. So both of those are still in my family. In 20 years and nearly 400k miles, I had zero transmission problems.

I only step on the gas when I am accelerating out of a downshift, ie passing someone. Most of the time, I'm on the brake while downshifting. I was taught to drive manuals in the early 90s and never "rev matched" there either in the 81 Plymouth Horizon I learned on, nor my 72 Jeep Wagoneer with a rare 4 speed, or my Dad's 3/4 ton Ford pick up with a granny-low four speed that we drove like a 3 speed (taking off in 2nd gear).

Stepping on the gas to give RPM when downshifting in general is not necessary in my experience.

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