EPA deregulation to kill Auto Start Stop (ASS)?

[Lcubed]

There you go again...bringing facts to the table.

So you're saying that the AC may run year round? Or at least the 6 months of the year opposite of what we do in the south?

Bottom line is that the test wasn't done in a realistic manner, it was done to prove a bias that ASS works.

more like three months of AC required for cooling. i've seen winter weather there in 9 of the possible 12 months. and summers are super low humidity

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[MilesTeg]

So, I've brought actual data from (engineers & third parties) to the table that shows that ASS provides a significant benefit. Several folks dispute that, but I note they have provided exactly 0 data. Only anecdotes, contrived scenarios, and bald assertions.

The counter argument that ASS provides 0 or only "fractional percentages" of benefit to the average driver has been given exactly zero support.

When I first experienced it I very much fell in the camp of "that can't possibly save more than a few sips of gas". Then I looked at the data, looked at the data from my vehicle, and performed my own testing with my own vehicle and my mind changed.

Show me the data that supports your position (zero or effectively zero benefit for the average driver), and I will evaluate it like I do all data.

 

[crenca]

Why do you think your particular, niche situation is relevant? Very few people live where they need A/C all the time. Most people live where A/C is needed in the summers and that's it. Roughly 1/4 of the year. And even during that 1/4 of the year its not needed all the time the vehicle is being used.

Baloney!

Moreover, even if your A/C is on doesn't mean it will prevent engine shutdown. It depends on how recently the compressor was run. It could be 120F but if the compressor just ran, your A/C will work just fine for a couple minutes at a stop light.

Double helping of hot steaming baloney!

You keep preaching brother - the faithful say amen - and don't let the truth get in your way

 

[michelle227]

Do you not realize the compressor also sees use for defrosting?

Being in Maryland, I would expect you to know something about moisture dragged into the car from rain or snow...

 

[Lcubed]

Do you not realize the compressor also sees use for defrosting?

Being in Maryland, I would expect you to know something about moisture dragged into the car from rain or snow...

you do realize that the compressor doesn't run at full load at all times (and maryland has long periods during the winter without rain or snow. we're currently in a drought condition)

 

[RagnarKon]

Woah... 10 pages??

I didn't realize there was so much passion around Auto Start/Stop.

 

[Lcubed]

Woah... 10 pages??

I didn't realize there was so much passion around Auto Start/Stop.

it's devolved into the minutia of A/C compressor operation which in it's own way is AS/S due to the use of a clutch

 

[crenca]

Woah... 10 pages??

I didn't realize there was so much passion around Auto Start/Stop.

Agree or disagree (with ASS, with the current administration on anything or everything, etc) there is a reason they made hay of it during the campaign and now in their corrective measures.

It's one of those things that just ticks people off. I can recall in my youth how seat belts were thought of, but at least the benifits were much more widely acknowledged. ASS is one of those things forced upon you that is just f$#%ing silly.

I'm surprised being in the industry you did not know

 

[crzyhawk]

Agree or disagree (with ASS, with the current administration on anything or everything, etc) there is a reason they made hay of it during the campaign and now in their corrective measures.

It's one of those things that just ticks people off. I can recall in my youth how seat belts were thought of, but at least the benifits were much more widely acknowledged. ASS is one of those things forced upon you that is just f$#%ing silly.

I'm surprised being in the industry you did not know

^^ this. I don't hate ASS. it annoys me, and I don't believe it does as much as they'll have you believe. Driving habits will always trump this gimmick into insignificance.

 

[DarthLincoln]

Seems to me that they were looking for a specific result in not using the AC. I live in VA, my AC is NEVER off (12 months of the year it is on).

What were they trying to hide, why not run with the AC to get an actual result? Not having the AC on my opinion invalidates the test. Why not run both ways unless there was an agenda?

Run that "test" here in Aug and your savings is exactly 0% but that wouldn't "prove" the authors point would it?

Data manipulation is why. You can cook all sorts of tests to make them show something you like that does not necessarily reflect how the average user actually uses something. They'll give you a cooked value, and then you'll wonder why you never see those sort of results.

You are making assumptions and creating misinformation by suggesting “they were looking for a specific result” or concluding “data manipulation is why”.

Edmunds tested both without AC and with AC.
The AAA study and the Oak Ridge National Labs study published in SAE both tested vehicles per the EPA standard test cycles for urban and highway driving. That is how EPA labeled fuel economy numbers are generated - to evaluate the efficiency of the powertrain. Energy used by the climate control system and any other powered accessories greatly depends on customer’s climate and preference.

There are good reasons to criticize AS/S systems, the main one being that most do not preserve the user’s choice to keep it off. Pushing unsubstantiated assumptions to vilify a source of data makes a pathetic argument.

 

[KreeHBronco]

extremely seamless with the 7MT.

pretty sure it's taking cues from the clutch pedal position while on the automatics, it has to guess intentions.

I got my new Bronco last week and I have been driving it. I agree with your assessment. It is pretty seamless and doesn't bother me at all.

 

[KreeHBronco]

I could care less if I have ASS or not, most times I don't bother to turn it off & if you really hate it, it's a simple button push (or just let off the brake for a second at a stop light)

But gas under $2/gallon? That must be nice.
We'll never see that again in PA thanks to our insane fuel taxes & how F-d up Penn Dot is with wasting money.

Price of gas in California is even worse. Currently its about $4.50 for regular and $5 for premium.

 

[Brian_B]

I always found it funny that ASS wasn't supposed to kick in if it's too hot or too cold outside, but I'll be damned if it doesn't always seem to come on when it's 100° outside and that blast of furnace air when you hit a stop light is always pleasant.

Almost as much fun as when the Bronco decides to randomly turn Recirculate off and on for me.

Why can't cars just do what I tell them to do?

 

[jtgensler]

Price of gas in California is even worse. Currently its about $4.50 for regular and $5 for premium.

Yeah, Cali is always the worst. Just be glad they still let you buy gas out there

 

[dougcjohn]

Wow… left this for a week or so… 10 pages.
Subject still focused on ASS or debating data, realities or politics?

Simple: to most it’s a bothersome annoying feature. Two options to prevent: press button each time started or install an override. After 2 weeks of finding it an obnoxious irritant, pushing button… ordered the Auto shutoff eliminator.

Problem solved, too much time wasted on a subject not benefiting the Bronco community.

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