Recovery gear deep dive: shackles, straps and kinetic ropes, what to buy!

[yamabrp]

I picked up one of these at Overland Expo last year for $200. They were being closed out for a new model. The Winch in box is good for 8,000 with a snatch block.

I tend to be cautious in my travels. I don't want the extra weight and expense for something most people never use. Most people I've talked to have used their winch to assist others, not for self recovery.

Link on winch you picked up?

I am mainly trying to figure out what recovery kit (w kinetic rope) I need. I won't venture past easy or light moderate trails, but I thought it wise to have some type of gear on board (in addition to the fire extinguisher and first aid kit I already have).
A winch for me is later on down the line....

Thanks
Ron

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[CalvinT]

Link on winch you picked up?

I am mainly trying to figure out what recovery kit (w kinetic rope) I need. I won't venture past easy or light moderate trails, but I thought it wise to have some type of gear on board (in addition to the fire extinguisher and first aid kit I already have).
A winch for me is later on down the line....

Thanks
Ron

Unfortunately they're going for a lot more now. Not sure why. Maybe you can find a discount the way I did. I'm rewiring mine for Anderson connectors. That way I can use it at the front or the rear. The cable it somes with isn't long enough to reach to the back. I'm replacing their hard shackles and snatch block also.

Of course if you have the skills you could always copy their idea and make your own. I can take photos of mine to provide more detail if anyone asks.

https://www.superwinch.com/winch2go-4000sr-synthetic-rope-1140232/

 

[THE_SAVSQCH]

As more people keep posting about recovery gear I figure we should have a technical discussion.

1)First is making sure you control your failure point! You really want the strap or kinetic rope to be the yield point. People put to much emphasis on getting a big strap, you want to have the strap fail before anything else. This sounds dangerous, but a whipping rope is safer than a fly hitch or shackle.

2)Most receiver hitches are in the 40,000lb break strength, this is not deform and yield area. So at 40,000lbs a hitch can break, so if your new to recovery stepping down to smaller straps is highly recommend.

3)Shackles, you don't need the biggest ones ever made. You want to be under the 40,000lb breaking strength so that the shackle fails before the mount. At this time a 7/16 soft shackle is around 40,000lb breaking point and as big as you want to go for a Bronco(they lose strength as they are used so typical safe to assume they will fail before 40,000lbs). Goal here is to stay under the hitch or mounts strength. A 3/8 soft shackle is around 30,000lbs breaking point and also a good option if paired with the right size rope/strap. Same theory applies to d ring metal shackles, watch the rating(they are all different). I always carry a metal shackle because they don't cut on sharp edges. For a metal shackle you want to stay in the 40,000lb and above area. Metal shackles are rated on working load so a 40,000lb shackle has a factor of safety before failure and safe to use with 40,000lb soft shackle (usually rated to failure strength). I would stay large on metal shackles as if the mounting point fails I rather have hopefully a whole bumper attached to the shackle than the shackle(something to think about when hooking up to pull someone).

4)Strap / Kinetic Rope should have a lower yield than shackles. You are controlling the failure zone to the strap. 1" Kinetic rope is rated to 30,000lbs as large as you want to go. Do not think you need a bigger rope/strap, bigger is not better it just moves the failure. 7/8" Kinetic rope is 25,000lbs followed by a 3/4" Kinetic rope at 20,000lbs. Same with straps a 3" wide strap is good for 30,000lbs and 2" wide strap is good for 20,000lbs.

5) Putting it all together! You want a step down in strength at each connection. You are controlling your failure point (yes the most costly item is the failure point).
7/16" soft shackle (40,000lbs) => 1" or 7/8" or 3/4" kinetic rope (30,000lbs to 20,000lbs)
7/16" soft shackle (40,000lbs) => 3" or 2" wide strap (30,000lbs to 20,000lbs)
3/8" soft shackle (30,000lbs) => 3/4" kinetic rope (20,000lbs)
3/8" soft shackle (30,000lbs) => 2" wide strap (20,000lbs)

Take away,
If you are new to offroading a 3/4" kinetic rope and 2" wide strap are what you want. Its perfectly fine to break a strap/rope, that just tells you need to rethink how your pulling and that something is not right. I wouldn't buy a 3/8" soft shackle, 7/16" is pretty much the standard and do not buy bigger soft shackles as you don't want to exceed the mounting point (that is how you get flying metal). I always recommend matching straps to kinetic ropes in case you need to use both at the same time try and have them equal strength.

Bigger kinetic ropes are becoming a hot item, don't be pulled in. You want the rope to fail before you rip the frame or mounts!

I always buy 30ft straps/ropes you want some distance between 5000lb vehicles buy the extra 10ft!

This post is amazing! Thank you OP this is great. - BBR

 

[yamabrp]

Unfortunately they're going for a lot more now. Not sure why. Maybe you can find a discount the way I did. I'm rewiring mine for Anderson connectors. That way I can use it at the front or the rear. The cable it somes with isn't long enough to reach to the back. I'm replacing their hard shackles and snatch block also.

Of course if you have the skills you could always copy their idea and make your own. I can take photos of mine to provide more detail if anyone asks.

https://www.superwinch.com/winch2go-4000sr-synthetic-rope-1140232/

That is cool!!
Thanks

 

[Q1svt]

Snacktime... great thread [should be a sticky]

I'm new again to the 4x4 world after many decades. Tying to get back up to speed and found your thread, and pondered your comment of 'failure point'

I don't remember anything about that in my/others go to rigging manual... US Army FM20-22 1970
https://www.steelsoldiers.com/upload/misc/FM20-22.pdf

As more people keep posting about recovery gear I figure we should have a technical discussion.

1)First is making sure you control your failure point! You really want the strap or kinetic rope to be the yield point. People put to much emphasis on getting a big strap, you want to have the strap fail before anything else. This sounds dangerous, but a whipping rope is safer than a fly hitch or shackle.

So, here is my question on failure point. [re: winching]

If I choose to use a soft shackle as that point. And pick a location within rigging to keep everything as safe as possible... Is it okay to use two of them, each at a different rating and most important at different lengths

The short one is the weakest and breaks, the second one being longer will keep [maybe] the rigging from flying around ???

Interested in your thoughts good/bad

Thanks again for a great topic thread, and sharing your knowledge .

 

[Snacktime]

@Q1svt I wouldn't try to make a failure point. I would just try to keep the winch line as lowest strength item. Also double rigging is very dangerous as a moving load can load up the second rigging with 2-3 times the force that broke the first shackle.

A bridle rigging would be a safer choice, yet this is more to get the factory of safety due to low strength recovery points. I would look at maritime information over military recovery.

I would only carry basic gear you need to recover yourself. Most of the time a kinetic rope with a little tension is all that is needed to get someone out.

 

[Q1svt]

Snacktime ... good info. A couple of points and questions.

Yes, at this time in life, I'm looking to ensure I can get myself out of stuff [experienced & old enough to know better] ;^) but adding a winch and a 7mt creeper gearing since it seem most trips will be solo events.

Maybe clearer, I was trying to understand your failure point comments. Plus "I would just try to keep the winch line as lowest strength item." Since I'm going alone didn't want to break the winch line... incase I needed more than one attempt of self extraction.

Thought / liked your info on keeping all gear about the some level... [metal higher than rope/straps ] and have just one area [other than the winch line] the point that could break.

First is making sure you control your failure point! You really want the strap or kinetic rope to be the yield point.

I thought about it being a soft shackle, strap

... kinetic rope ? not a fan of them on a trail... I can see the use for someone in snow bank. Me Creeper gear and winch.. [you can find yourself in some very bad places, if the kinetic tugging goes wrong ]

The Army Manual was used years ago mainly for types of anchoring ... correct rigging options general load data... If I read your profile you have trees up north... in socal we have deserts and nothing around to anchor too lol

Been around boats my whole life... not sure how winching a boat is applicable? unless their aground.

A bridle rigging would be a safer choice, yet this is more to get the factory of safety due to low strength recovery points. I would look at maritime information over military recovery.

Helping someone else get back to a safe port, or off of the trail, yes... And towlines for boats need a shock attachment.


Thanks for your time on this entire thread.

 

[theblackangus]

I wouldn't try to make a failure point.

Can you expand on your logic behind that?

At face value it seems like making a "Fuse" link would be beneficial for two reasons:
1. Define a point that you know mostly likely will break so you can apply dampening as appropriate near that point
2. Lower the over all recover cost as a shackle is much less than a full rope

I am honestly asking, as I am new to the subject, since you are coming to a different conclusion than me, there are some obvious concerns I must be missing.

Thanks for the thread and knowledge. I wasn't even thinking about it like you described and understanding the science behind it really help bring into focus the details around safe recovery.

 

[Q1svt]

@theblackangus
After this thread I found
Yankum ropes safety catch sling
Description
“If using a double winch ring set up with the line going through the winch twice, then a safety sling is recommended.
The safety sling is made to catch the line if case of line/shackle failure.
Simply run the double loop soft shackle through the eyes of the sling, and loop the sling around an axle or part of the frame.”

 

[theblackangus]

@theblackangus
After this thread I found
Yankum ropes safety catch sling
Description
“If using a double winch ring set up with the line going through the winch twice, then a safety sling is recommended.
The safety sling is made to catch the line if case of line/shackle failure.
Simply run the double loop soft shackle through the eyes of the sling, and loop the sling around an axle or part of the frame.”

Thanks - Do you have a link? I would love to read what they have published.

 

[Snacktime]

Can you expand on your logic behind that?

At face value it seems like making a "Fuse" link would be beneficial for two reasons:
1. Define a point that you know mostly likely will break so you can apply dampening as appropriate near that point
2. Lower the over all recover cost as a shackle is much less than a full rope

I am honestly asking, as I am new to the subject, since you are coming to a different conclusion than me, there are some obvious concerns I must be missing.

Thanks for the thread and knowledge. I wasn't even thinking about it like you described and understanding the science behind it really help bring into focus the details around safe recovery.

Your just making a whip, you want the weakest link to be in the middle but not a failure point. I wouldn't worry about ruining gear, you will end up sacrificing something down the line to learning/desperation. Equipment also ages out and is the main factor for failures.

My winch line is 2 years old, might be time to make it a winch extension and throw new line on.

 

[Q1svt]

Thanks - Do you have a link? I would love to read what they have published.

Here is the link to yankum, but it’s what I posted.

Seems recovery has gone to all soft components… Matt’s off-road recovery ut is interesting in his tuff recoveries… but his rig has many winches. I m doing solo things and may need redirecting gear that can only be metal….

https://yankum.com/products/10-ft-safety-catch-sling

 

[mdainsd]

We don't really know what the factory recovery points are rated, assumption is they are made with quality steel. So I would put them in the 40-50,000lb category. The first time someone manages to remove it will be interesting to dig into.

However,
Rear mounting Points are mounted by 2 10.9 M14 bolts if I remember correctly will need to check size but I know they are 10.9. So 26977lb per bolt in tensile load so I am guessing in the 50,000lb area or so. Even with 46,000 soft shackles you should be good. This is basic guess-estimation engineering.

I wouldn't run out and change anything you have purchased. I would match the 30,000lb tow strap to a 30,000lb Kinetic rope. That way if you need more rope/strap for a recovery you aren't creating a failure point at one end.

Big thing with metal shackles of that size is not connecting them to anything of lesser strength or using them anyplace but connected to steel.

Really the big thing about this post is to think about what your buying and basic recovery like mounting points.

Not sure I got this right but the rear loop bolts are in shear, not tensile. Two bolts per so shear is closer to 30k than the 50K you site? Assuming 10.9 14mm.

 

[HalfmuleFarmer]

My budget-friendly advice: 1) If you don’t have a winch, then wheel with a buddy who has one. If you’re out there stuck alone, pricey ropes and shackles aren’t going to be very useful. 2) If you’re not going out alone, make sure your buddy with the winch also has good recovery ropes and shackles.

 

[theblackangus]

Your just making a whip, you want the weakest link to be in the middle but not a failure point. I wouldn't worry about ruining gear, you will end up sacrificing something down the line to learning/desperation. Equipment also ages out and is the main factor for failures.

My winch line is 2 years old, might be time to make it a winch extension and throw new line on.

I disagree with nothing you said.
What I was really thinking of was specifially adding a "fuse" in between two straps/or kenetic ropes.
Reason: With the breaking point being the rope it will break at the weakest part across its span.
If you use a "fuse" you can then more tighly control the breakpoint and cost of the incident.

So something like:

Pull Vehicle - Shackle - Line 1 - Fuse - Line 2 - Shackle - Stuck Vehicle.

My think is that then you concentrate the breakpoint to the fuse are then dampen near to it on both sides to prevent whipping.

The trade I see is setup complexity vs breakpoint control.

Thanks for the conversation!

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