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Poppavein

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There are plenty of drivers with their left foot on the brake making up for the EVs that don’t light up the brakes.
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adam1991

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But people are hardly aware that such a thing as a maual transmission exists anymore...

...people don't give any space at lights on hills anymore, they'll come up right on your bumper without even a thought that the vehicle might come back a few inches before going forward...
There you have it.
 

CV428

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"simplify, and add lightness"

I'm waiting for the manufacturer who has the balls to do what VW did with the Beetle. Light touches, same basic car for years.

I read the book Car, about the design and manufacture of the 2nd gen Taurus. I remember seeing that car and thinking, OMG how ugly. Yes, gen 1 was a superb departure from the LTD--and frankly, they should have kept it largely as-is from a design standpoint. Instead, they tried to out-Taurus the Taurus. And, IMHO, failed miserably.

The real good people know when they've gone too far, and to step back away from that.
I have many stories like this, but this one stands out... About 10 years ago, I was doing mold, welding, and assembly system engineering work for a certain massive Euro automotive OEM (name withheld on purpose). After I designed all of the tooling, had it machined, built it, and mostly programmed, the client sent me new data. Golly gee, they reduced 1.5mm from the thickness of all of the parts and wanted to know what the cost impact would be. Apparently some program director had to check some boxes on a "green initiative" and they decided that thinning everything out would save weight, materials, and cost. I gave them a figure, they paid, I made the changes as requested. A month or two later they came back with new data- same general shape but all sorts of fancy gussets and support braces all throughout. Apparently they thinned out the components too much and they flexed at highway speed. Now, all of the extra geometry interfered with tooling in other systems. I explained this to them and asked if it was possible to just return to the original thicker design. I got MBA word-salad as a response, and had to quote making a ridiculous number of changes. We're talking close to 7 figures at this point. Just for S&G's, I compared the old data to the new gusset-crazy data and the volume was almost identical. So, they spent a ton of money and materials, wasted months, achieved absolutely nothing, but the program director got to lie by claiming the new design was "green."

While there are some excellent engineers in the automotive world that put me to shame by comparison, for every one of them, there are 50+ program directors that have no concept of reality and continually make horribly inefficient stupid decisions and permanently reside in conference rooms to justify their existence... and the cost of their existence is rolled into piece price for the cars we all buy. It's the same with government and taxes. Bloat, bloat, and more bloat.

I could go on for hours. The things I have seen in engineering could only be explained that the modern trends are for establishing an addictive and distracting nature of unnecessary poisonous worldiness.

The problem with some magical OEM presenting the market with a $12k no-frills car platform is that nobody would buy enough of them to keep the business afloat. Everyone has been conditioned to believe that the most basic cars should have features that were considered high-tech and luxury just decades prior. Lifestyle inflation was forced on everyone.

tl;dr: I love my Bronco but man there are too many computers in it
 

timhood

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2-door Badlands V6 for the win!
 

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VoltageDrop

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SeanBronc

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Mass produced vehicles don't increase in value or become collector cars regardless of rarity for decades ;)
Talked to a guy with a 2014 Toyota FJ Cruiser. Said he bought it 5 years ago and paid more than the original MSRP. Looked to still be in mint condition.
 

cbrenthus

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Talked to a guy with a 2014 Toyota FJ Cruiser. Said he bought it 5 years ago and paid more than the original MSRP. Looked to still be in mint condition.
While the FJ Cruiser was technically, mass produced, there are already more than twice as many 6g Broncos in the US as there ever were FJ cruisers of the 2006-2014 generation ;)


Source:
FJ Cruiser forum says that 222,029 were sold in the US
goodcarbadcar.net says that 448, 118 Broncos have been sold in the US since 2020
 

Lowcountry Bronco

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Talked to a guy with a 2014 Toyota FJ Cruiser. Said he bought it 5 years ago and paid more than the original MSRP. Looked to still be in mint condition.
While the FJ Cruiser was technically, mass produced, there are already more than twice as many 6g Broncos in the US as there ever were FJ cruisers of the 2006-2014 generation ;)


Source:
FJ Cruiser forum says that 222,029 were sold in the US
goodcarbadcar.net says that 448, 118 Broncos have been sold in the US since 2020
5 years ago was a different used car market too!

My old '07 FJ isn't really worth much at 140k miles with faded paint, now if it's a Trail Teams edition with garaged and super low miles in heritage blue or whatever special colors then yep, they'll still bring sticker.
 

bloominguez

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I have many stories like this, but this one stands out... About 10 years ago, I was doing mold, welding, and assembly system engineering work for a certain massive Euro automotive OEM (name withheld on purpose). After I designed all of the tooling, had it machined, built it, and mostly programmed, the client sent me new data. Golly gee, they reduced 1.5mm from the thickness of all of the parts and wanted to know what the cost impact would be. Apparently some program director had to check some boxes on a "green initiative" and they decided that thinning everything out would save weight, materials, and cost. I gave them a figure, they paid, I made the changes as requested. A month or two later they came back with new data- same general shape but all sorts of fancy gussets and support braces all throughout. Apparently they thinned out the components too much and they flexed at highway speed. Now, all of the extra geometry interfered with tooling in other systems. I explained this to them and asked if it was possible to just return to the original thicker design. I got MBA word-salad as a response, and had to quote making a ridiculous number of changes. We're talking close to 7 figures at this point. Just for S&G's, I compared the old data to the new gusset-crazy data and the volume was almost identical. So, they spent a ton of money and materials, wasted months, achieved absolutely nothing, but the program director got to lie by claiming the new design was "green."

While there are some excellent engineers in the automotive world that put me to shame by comparison, for every one of them, there are 50+ program directors that have no concept of reality and continually make horribly inefficient stupid decisions and permanently reside in conference rooms to justify their existence... and the cost of their existence is rolled into piece price for the cars we all buy. It's the same with government and taxes. Bloat, bloat, and more bloat.

I could go on for hours. The things I have seen in engineering could only be explained that the modern trends are for establishing an addictive and distracting nature of unnecessary poisonous worldiness.

The problem with some magical OEM presenting the market with a $12k no-frills car platform is that nobody would buy enough of them to keep the business afloat. Everyone has been conditioned to believe that the most basic cars should have features that were considered high-tech and luxury just decades prior. Lifestyle inflation was forced on everyone.

tl;dr: I love my Bronco but man there are too many computers in it
I have similar stories in the electric power world. This just another reason I laugh when people say, oh, the factory engineers know what they're doing so we shouldn't change something (even something simple like oil change intervals, for instance). Yeah, they do, but it doesn't matter! They're often overruled for many, many reasons. I've also learned that whenever you see a company doing something really foolish, you can rest assured that there are people internally who are saying, "What the f#$ are we doing???" The internal dissent is way stronger than our reactions externally.
 

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CV428

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I have similar stories in the electric power world. This just another reason I laugh when people say, oh, the factory engineers know what they're doing so we shouldn't change something (even something simple like oil change intervals, for instance). Yeah, they do, but it doesn't matter! They're often overruled for many, many reasons. I've also learned that whenever you see a company doing something really foolish, you can rest assured that there are people internally who are saying, "What the f#$ are we doing???" The internal dissent is way stronger than our reactions externally.
Most people bury their heads in the sand because they've been conditioned to. They see retaliation against those who push back and collectively determine it's easier to just nod and fall in line. It's really sad. I lost many friends over their cowardice.

One of the absolute dumbest things I have ever seen in my career was when a former (evil) boss of mine somehow sold science fiction to a major OEM by making it up during a tech conference.
 

Sgt Badlands

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I just saw locally on a lot a Cyber Orange 2dr BL with the optional wheels..... RARE!
I have a 21 BL 2 door Cyber orange with the optional bead lock capable wheels. I am taking offers starting at $75k🤣
 

Ripcurl

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I don‘t even think its so much as someone thinking “hey, my unique early build, possibly limited to thousands (as if that’s really limited) or even hundreds in some cases, is even rarer now and i think it should be worth $x should i sell it.”

To me it’s a more satisfying fact that you won’t see a dozen similarly configured builds every time you roll out to a trail or to a chick-fil-a or to a home depot.

I used to glance at some vehicles when they were new and somewhat unique……but now you see fleets of so many formerly groundbreaking brands…….
 

FilmcoBronci

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My condolences to the people who Ford made your car obsolete.

XGCKj0p.webp



In my opinion Outer Banks is the next one to go.
2-door Bronco is still the King.
PS: This is just my opinion and for Entertainment purposes only.
Ha. You’re new.
I’m 92,000 miles into our day one 2021 6G order. It has been spectacular. Hard blizzard days in mountain passes, mining roads, and sandy ruts. We 4-wheel for work and play.
We’re good!
Our list price with incentives 6G’s life mission has been more than fulfilled. Didn’t buy a Day One Black Diamond to flip it.
It is now a classic!
 

MNBronc

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Talked to a guy with a 2014 Toyota FJ Cruiser. Said he bought it 5 years ago and paid more than the original MSRP. Looked to still be in mint condition.
I have a friend with a '14 FJ and about 30k miles. He just had it appraised for insurance purposes - $56k!!
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