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Manual transmission scraping noise / grinding sound

I3lackRose

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I brought my 2023 in for the same issue this week, dealer agreed it matches the TSB. I guess they had to contact Ford first because the TSB applied to the 21 and 22 only, but got good resolution. Parts on backorder though so it will be a while I'm guessing.

Agree with the thought that people should go in and get this documented with Ford on the TSB to force them to roll a part number on this and solve the root cause.
Yea, I'm eager to get the replacement synchros in so they can get chewed right up in a couple days. That way we aren't just fixing the issue but we are fixing the cause too? Right now I feel the TSB only addresses the issue and damage but not the cause.
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Karl_in_Chicago

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I'm just kind of curious where Getrag is in all this. It's not like Ford is assembling these things themselves - they are procuring them from Getrag and slapping them in. If there's a defect then just replacing a failed unit with another unchanged unit seems like you are just kicking the can (full of rocks) down the road for a little bit until you have to repeat the cycle. It's the AE-35 Control Unit all over again! Not at all encouraging.
 

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Given the fact that this occurs at low temperatures and goes away after things warm up imply to me that they are losing an interference fit between one of the shafts and the gears that are being replaced. This is a very simple calculation for the engineers to work out and dial in.

Depending on how much interference and temperature range Getrag is going for the difference is probably on the order of .001 or .002 inches in diameter. Certainly possible this was a tolerance stackup issue between the gears and shaft so depending on how everything was machined it could work out that some combinations of parts would work and others would not (either some gears a little too big or shafts a little too small). My hope is that Ford is working with Getrag to sort out synchros and find parts on the smaller diameter end of the tolerance to fix transmissions in the near term. Then adjust the tolerance going forward long term in production.

Again, this is all pure guesswork though and may be something completely unrelated too. I'm just some person on the internet that has done some bearing and shaft design work in the past in a different industry.
 

bobogto

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I’m not sure this was ever posted here but an owner in a FB group posted that they had the TSB performed and the sound went away.

They included these pictures of the 5 and 6th gear having “friction weld” burn marks on them. Oil was also visibly discolored with metal. I screen grabbed those pictures of the gears. Not my content so I can’t offer much more of an explanation. This owner reported the dealer replaced these gears as well.

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Any link to the actual post? Wonder which dealer performed the TSB, since it seems most are reluctant and with right so. I would like to take mine to that dealership. :)

I have the fluid ready to go, just haven’t had time over the holidays. Hope to sometime this week. I’ll post pics of the fluid and the analysis when I get it.
Did you had the time yet? :)

So I had a little spare time at the end of the day and decided to try changing my fluid. 1st off I wanted to save what I got out and measure how much. I recovered almost exactly 2.5 qt. Drained it into a clean antifreeze jug (w/top cut off), then after settling i poured it back in the quart jugs. No metal flake, no visible metal of any kind in my jug. Fluid was a little dark from heat, but otherwise perfect.
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I have read posts that say if the vehicle is pointed uphill, the noise stops...causing some of us to think possibly there is a lack of lube to the rear of the case causing the noise. I'm not sure i buy that theory, but I noticed the fill hole is nearly all the way to the rear of the trans, so I figured if I filled it w/the rear end jacked up, I might be able to get a little more in it, and yes, I was able to pump 3 quarts before any trickled out. I then did my best to force feed a 4th quart, and quickly install the plug before it all leaked back out. I'm not saying this is a solution, and if it pukes fluid out of the vent, thats on me. But its something I want to try. Will post my results in a few days!
C'mon dude... we are waiting... :) Did the noise go away? Any shifting difference? It's been daaaays. :)
 

Bmadda

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Any link to the actual post? Wonder which dealer performed the TSB, since it seems most are reluctant and with right so. I would like to take mine to that dealership. :)



Did you had the time yet? :)


C'mon dude... we are waiting... :) Did the noise go away? Any shifting difference? It's been daaaays. :)
It's been 2 days, and so far so good...however, I'm not convinced just yet. I haven't really driven much, just home+work. I'll get it out for a longer ride this weekend. Definitely was the right temp to make the noise this AM, and it did not. Shifting seems just fine.
 

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Bmadda

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Given the fact that this occurs at low temperatures and goes away after things warm up imply to me that they are losing an interference fit between one of the shafts and the gears that are being replaced. This is a very simple calculation for the engineers to work out and dial in.

Depending on how much interference and temperature range Getrag is going for the difference is probably on the order of .001 or .002 inches in diameter. Certainly possible this was a tolerance stackup issue between the gears and shaft so depending on how everything was machined it could work out that some combinations of parts would work and others would not (either some gears a little too big or shafts a little too small). My hope is that Ford is working with Getrag to sort out synchros and find parts on the smaller diameter end of the tolerance to fix transmissions in the near term. Then adjust the tolerance going forward long term in production.

Again, this is all pure guesswork though and may be something completely unrelated too. I'm just some person on the internet that has done some bearing and shaft design work in the past in a different industry.
That's all a fine theory, but one other factor has me interested and that is the reports that the noise will go away if the vehicle is on an incline. Also the fact that the noise can be instantly silenced by putting pressure on the 6th gear blocking ring. To me this says endplay issue. Endplay would also tighten up after warmup, if it's not too severe, but some people are reporting the noise remains when warm, which could be a case of more excessive endplay. I suspect that replacing the 5/6 blocking rings tightens the endplay temporarily, but since blocking rings are a wear item, they shouldn't be used to set endplay permanently, which is why I am puzzled by the TSB, and waiting eagerly to find out if it really works. Also pure speculation on my part!
 

bobogto

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We need to get info on the post from somewhere else who actually had the 5 and 6th synchros replaced. I'm on the 6g Facebook page, but I haven't actually seen a post about the actual TSB being done there.
 

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That's all a fine theory, but one other factor has me interested and that is the reports that the noise will go away if the vehicle is on an incline. Also the fact that the noise can be instantly silenced by putting pressure on the 6th gear blocking ring. To me this says endplay issue. Endplay would also tighten up after warmup, if it's not too severe, but some people are reporting the noise remains when warm, which could be a case of more excessive endplay. I suspect that replacing the 5/6 blocking rings tightens the endplay temporarily, but since blocking rings are a wear item, they shouldn't be used to set endplay permanently, which is why I am puzzled by the TSB, and waiting eagerly to find out if it really works. Also pure speculation on my part!
That makes a lot of sense too. Definitely an unfortunate situation overall but I'm sure nothing that is too hard to solve for Getrag and Ford. Just will take longer to implement than everyone would like.
 

thesocalexplorer

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Please share! More views on these videos the more public views we get, the more attention this gets. Dealer has yet to schedule my TSB. Calling them again today.

Great video capturing the noise & different scenarios it appears in!
 

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Any link to the actual post? Wonder which dealer performed the TSB, since it seems most are reluctant and with right so. I would like to take mine to that dealership. :)
Actual post is in 2 Door Bronco 6G Owners group. No major updates. But this owner had a transmission replaced prior, and apparently several transmission “flushes”. Looks like the replacement gears may have been lost by FedEx? Not sure this owner even got the bronco back yet but I asked. Will update if I hear anything.
 

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bobogto

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Actual post is in 2 Door Bronco 6G Owners group. No major updates. But this owner had a transmission replaced prior, and apparently several transmission “flushes”. Looks like the replacement gears may have been lost by FedEx? Not sure this owner even got the bronco back yet but I asked. Will update if I hear anything.
Thanks. Will be waiting on your follow-up. I guess, as usual we will all have to contribute and get this pieced in together ourselves. I honestly think we have more info on this than Ford. And if we get one of the people on here that have some experience with this type of machinery they will be able to figure out the problem and a solution.
 

SPITmadFIRE

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@Ford Motor Company sure would be nice if instead of sending us social media folks asking for VINs, you sent us some sort of engineering evangelist who would ask us questions about our very-common, obviously-not-fixed-by-any-current-TSB issue. That way we could help you save money on warrantied gearboxes and get it resolved sooner 😉
 

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Thanks. Will be waiting on your follow-up. I guess, as usual we will all have to contribute and get this pieced in together ourselves. I honestly think we have more info on this than Ford. And if we get one of the people on here that have some experience with this type of machinery they will be able to figure out the problem and a solution.
Follow-up comes faster than expected! Apparently the owner started a new post with an update. Looks like work was completed on the 4th. No new photos but overall impression is good:

“It’s great. Matter of fact it’s better than day one. It has always made a tiny noise even when they replaced the trans and the other manuals I have driven made it too….I just thought it was a little noisy by nature. It’s dead quiet now😳 like not even the same Bronco it’s awesome.”
 

I3lackRose

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Follow-up comes faster than expected! Apparently the owner started a new post with an update. Looks like work was completed on the 4th. No new photos but overall impression is good:

“It’s great. Matter of fact it’s better than day one. It has always made a tiny noise even when they replaced the trans and the other manuals I have driven made it too….I just thought it was a little noisy by nature. It’s dead quiet now😳 like not even the same Bronco it’s awesome.”
do you have link to that post? I'm curious of how much its been driven in 2 days?
 

SPITmadFIRE

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Follow-up comes faster than expected! Apparently the owner started a new post with an update. Looks like work was completed on the 4th. No new photos but overall impression is good:

“It’s great. Matter of fact it’s better than day one. It has always made a tiny noise even when they replaced the trans and the other manuals I have driven made it too….I just thought it was a little noisy by nature. It’s dead quiet now😳 like not even the same Bronco it’s awesome.”
Would love to stay updated on this one, hopefully it's resolved for good and never comes back! I'm just wary from the folks above with new transmissions who get the noise back pretty quickly, as well as folks who've done the TSB and had the noise come back.
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