The issue no one is talking about. Or is it?

[Monster1926]

I'll wager one large pineapple pizza that they won't.
Why would they?

Don’t they’ll badger you into agreeing with them then make it seem like your psychotic one. Might be a female.

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[HoosierDaddy]

Don’t they’ll badger you into agreeing with them then make it seem like your psychotic one. Might be a female.

LOL, I was just about to step in and ask both of you to drop it .... then you stepped up. That was hilarious.
Decided I had to poke the bear. LOL

 

[ICUGAZN]

This only applies to the Bronco's under MAP jail. Since Ford has made it clear that they won't be received replacement MIC until October. Realisticly end of October or even November since they tend to over promise and under deliver. And we can expect them to take severals weeks at a minimum to several months; maybe even extending into 2022 for these #badbatchbronco for their tops to get replaced. So these Bronco's will be sitting at MAP at a minimum for 4 months to 6+ months plus another 4 weeks for delivery before they get delivered to dealers likely stretching into 2022. So is it really acceptable to take delivery of a 2021 "badbatchbronco" in 2022 for the same price, when they are building or maybe even deliverying the 2022 Bronco's. They are basically year old models with possible water damage from the leaking tops and the mechanical/physical deteriating components for being exposed to the elements and not being driven lubricating all the parts/seals. We are still expected to pay the same for a 6 month old Bronco that's been sitting and will instantly take a year hit on depresiation versus. I would rather put a new order in for a 2022, have it built and driving it within a month. But that's only if we can keep our original reservation time stamp. Anyone else think Ford should financial compense us 2021 builts since they won't be able to be bought until the end of the year which will put most of us in 2022 and buying a 2021? Thoughts? Anyone else not happy about buying a badbatchbronco that could have possible interior damage not noticable or worried about the mechanicals components sitting idle for such a long time without some sort of model end discount or incentive? Year end discount, rebate, trade-in assist, ford pass points or some sort of extended warranty? Or do you just don't care?

What Trim and build did you order?

 

[Bronc-O]

I'll wager one large pineapple pizza that they won't.
Why would they?

That was all I asked and got put on blast.

I thought they might since by the time the tops get replaced, they'll have many cycles of dirt and rain on them. When replacing the tops, there will be doors and probably windows opened to facilitate replacement. Some will be leaned on in the process. Sure the dealer can touch up and buff out the paint, but a run through the car wash seemed like it might avoid most of that. I guess I was wrong in at least one persons opinion.

This is what I asked and got put on blast for.

Seems like if Ford were to allow soft tops on Broncos already built would ease some of the pressure. Someone mentioned that once the Monroney is created, the vehicle has to be built exactly that way, so that may not be possible. The time frame I keep seeing for new MIC is to START in October. Seems it would take some time to complete the over 2k waiting. How will they execute the process? Will a team go out to dirt mountain and simply swap? Will they bring them to a facility and wash them first and then swap the tops and perhaps do a QC on each one because they've been sitting a while? How many tops will Webasto be able to produce in a week? They will certainly be split between manufacturing and rework.

 

[ReimundKrohn]

As you noted, there was mention about a thicker exterior surface (to avoid the honeycomb pattern showing through), and the rolled/sealed edges (to avoid the edge delamination).

But was there mention of addressing the interior surface issues? Namely the pitting we saw in some forum photos and the uneven honeycomb appearance? If we still see the free fabric liner on the Oct forward revamped tops, I'd question if all the issues have been addressed.

My concern is too that there are greater issues at play with the MIC top here, certainly more than the “cosmetic” issues that Ford has copped to.

We have seen/heard the rattles and taps of the MIC top while driving (see ). TFL isn’t the only one to report this, and while the root cause of the issue hasn’t yet been identified, that it’s more than a “cosmetic” issue is unquestionable. A rattle in a new vehicle indicates a poor fit, which leads to movement under load, which leads to wear, which makes the fit worse….It is a problem that exasperates itself.

The “new and improved” MIC roof proposed may address the cosmetic issues sufficiently, but if there is more than cosmetics at play we might find MIC2.0 to be as much a bust as it’s predecessor. At that point, what will Ford do?

I am the kind of guy who likes to think through actions and consequences. I would expect others, including Ford top guns, to have done the same. I cannot help but think that something stinks here.

Ford produced an awful lot of vehicles with “cosmetically defective” roofs they are refusing to release, and get paid for. There is a huge cost to them doing that. Furthermore, Ford is refusing to give us Two Door VIN holders the opportunity to switch to a soft top, despite having had Bestop produce their Jeep TrekTop for the Bronco and using it at all the Off Roadeos and on their pre-production builds. The MIC roof on the two door is entirely removable and replaceable; it is an accessory - not a structural or permanent part of the vehicle. There is no reason NOT to offer two door customers a soft top option, especially if it will cost Ford the sale…. Unless that’s precisely the point.

Ford pre-sold the Bronco BEFORE the chip shortage and the steep inflation on freight, steel, aluminum, gas and energy. Their initial price point was reflective of a cost of production and acceptable margin. That Margin has been since SIGNIFICANTLY eroded. Ford is a for-profit company, who has been the most PROFOUNDLY affected of all automotive manufacturers by the chip shortages…. But they reported strong profits this past quarter, despite being down 700,000 vehicles in production. How? They told their shareholders by “reducing the cost of production” and “increasing the transaction price.” ….Well, how did they decrease the cost of production in a year of rampant inflation? How can they increase the transaction cost (sales price) on a vehicle sold to dealers at a firm discount from MSRP when last years MSRP didn’t account for inflation? They can’t. So what would YOU do?

Ford can’t sell 190,000 Broncos at a loss, nor force their dealers to sell them at no profit….. And they can’t just cancel everyone’s order arbitrarily….. BUT they can delay delivery long enough to get people to cancel their own orders…. Every order cancelled is one less order to fill at a loss. And that is how Ford gets themselves out of this whole mess, and why all of their decisions thus far seem to be made to intentionally antagonize their clients. They don’t want our business. They can’t afford it.

…. I hope I am wrong. We will see. The “tell” will be when 2022MY Order Banks open. If I am right, we are going to see no less than a 10-15% price increase across the board on the Bronco models.

Ford isn’t losing the fight, they’re throwing it.

 

[B33001]

A/Z plans are already allowed.

Yep my bad

 

[HoosierDaddy]

That was all I asked and got put on blast.

I thought they might since by the time the tops get replaced, they'll have many cycles of dirt and rain on them. When replacing the tops, there will be doors and probably windows opened to facilitate replacement. Some will be leaned on in the process. Sure the dealer can touch up and buff out the paint, but a run through the car wash seemed like it might avoid most of that. I guess I was wrong in at least one persons opinion.

This is what I asked and got put on blast for.

Seems like if Ford were to allow soft tops on Broncos already built would ease some of the pressure. Someone mentioned that once the Monroney is created, the vehicle has to be built exactly that way, so that may not be possible. The time frame I keep seeing for new MIC is to START in October. Seems it would take some time to complete the over 2k waiting. How will they execute the process? Will a team go out to dirt mountain and simply swap? Will they bring them to a facility and wash them first and then swap the tops and perhaps do a QC on each one because they've been sitting a while? How many tops will Webasto be able to produce in a week? They will certainly be split between manufacturing and rework.

I really want to smartass you about this stuff being common sense and how you must think Ford is a bunch of amateurs .... but judging how this launch is going, you may be right. LOL

I know nothing about this aspect of factory work, but I'll guess:

Judging by the amount of protective covers they use to protect the vehicle's paint while it is going down the assembly line, and a little bit of common sense, one could probably safely assume that Ford cares about NOT damaging the finish of the vehicles they produce and goes to pretty good effort and expense to protect them.

Therefore, I'd guess that if they felt there was enough dirt in the areas where they have to work that it MIGHT cause the finish to get marred ...ORRRR .... if they felt said dirt might effect the install of the new top in a bad way, they would take the appropiate steps to NOT damage the finish or get the new top installed properly.

Furthermore, since they have proven by these actions regarding the bad tops, that they actually care about delivering a solid product, I'd also bet they will do a quick Q.C. once over to make sure the newly refurbed Bronco is "All Systems GO!!!"

So there you have it, HoosierDaddys "BEST GUESS at FORD'S QC PROTOCOL" regarding refurbishing the Dirt Mountain Gang Broncos.
_________________________________
@Ford Motor Company
If you feel you need any further assistance developing a QC protocol for these 'Bad Batch Broncos" , feel free to reach out to me via DM's here or through all the info you have gathered for Reservation/Order # 10114458
Thanx,
HD

------------------------------------------

The rest of your questions are valid and only time will tell, BUT, maybe somewhere, somebody has a plan or preliminary schedule ... you can bet yer ass that person is not going to talk ... unless they are given the OK.
But it doesn't hurt to ask the right people.
I know I am at the tail end of the DMG builds, so yeah, it is a very important question to me also.

Your last sentence regarding splitting tops between production and DMG Broncos, seems incorrect by the information we have been given thus far.
I'd venture a guess that the only new tops to make it to the line before the DMG Broncos are done will be FE builds.
They seem pretty adamant about "NO NEW HARD TOP BUILDS .... (except possibly FE's)" until the backlog of bad tops is taken care of.

 

[Bronc-O]

I really want to smartass you about this stuff being common sense and how you must think Ford is a bunch of amateurs .... but judging how this launch is going, you may be right. LOL

I know nothing about this aspect of factory work, but I'll guess:

Judging by the amount of protective covers they use to protect the vehicle's paint while it is going down the assembly line, and a little bit of common sense, one could probably safely assume that Ford cares about NOT damaging the finish of the vehicles they produce and goes to pretty good effort and expense to protect them.

Therefore, I'd guess that if they felt there was enough dirt in the areas where they have to work that it MIGHT cause the finish to get marred ...ORRRR .... if they felt said dirt might effect the install of the new top in a bad way, they would take the appropiate steps to NOT damage the finish or get the new top installed properly.

Furthermore, since they have proven by these actions regarding the bad tops, that they actually care about delivering a solid product, I'd also bet they will do a quick Q.C. once over to make sure the newly refurbed Bronco is "All Systems GO!!!"

So there you have it, HoosierDaddys "BEST GUESS at FORD'S QC PROTOCOL" regarding refurbishing the Dirt Mountain Gang Broncos.
_________________________________
@Ford Motor Company
If you feel you need any further assistance developing a QC protocol for these 'Bad Batch Broncos" , feel free to reach out to me via DM's here or through all the info you have gathered for Reservation/Order # 10114458
Thanx,
HD

------------------------------------------

The rest of your questions are valid and only time will tell, BUT, maybe somewhere, somebody has a plan or preliminary schedule ... you can bet yer ass that person is not going to talk ... unless they are given the OK.
But it doesn't hurt to ask the right people.
I know I am at the tail end of the DMG builds, so yeah, it is a very important question to me also.

Your last sentence regarding splitting tops between production and DMG Broncos, seems incorrect by the information we have been given thus far.
I'd venture a guess that the only new tops to make it to the line before the DMG Broncos are done will be FE builds.
They seem pretty adamant about "NO NEW HARD TOP BUILDS .... (except possibly FE's)" until the backlog of bad tops is taken care of.

I didn't mention that in my original post, but thinking later as you stated, they build the Bronco in a clean environment and use fixtures and plastic to protect areas that may be damaged. Why would they be careless with roof replacement? If they damage the vehicle, how will they ship it? I'm pretty sure the shipper will note damage if they accept it because the dealer will certainly note it on their end and go after the shipper.

 

[Cencal Bronco]

Cars routinely sit on dealers lots for months. What difference is this?

I think you should ask your accountant about depresiation…

 

[navi]

My concern is too that there are greater issues at play with the MIC top here, certainly more than the “cosmetic” issues that Ford has copped to.

We have seen/heard the rattles and taps of the MIC top while driving (see ). TFL isn’t the only one to report this, and while the root cause of the issue hasn’t yet been identified, that it’s more than a “cosmetic” issue is unquestionable. A rattle in a new vehicle indicates a poor fit, which leads to movement under load, which leads to wear, which makes the fit worse….It is a problem that exasperates itself.

The “new and improved” MIC roof proposed may address the cosmetic issues sufficiently, but if there is more than cosmetics at play we might find MIC2.0 to be as much a bust as it’s predecessor. At that point, what will Ford do?

I am the kind of guy who likes to think through actions and consequences. I would expect others, including Ford top guns, to have done the same. I cannot help but think that something stinks here.

Ford produced an awful lot of vehicles with “cosmetically defective” roofs they are refusing to release, and get paid for. There is a huge cost to them doing that. Furthermore, Ford is refusing to give us Two Door VIN holders the opportunity to switch to a soft top, despite having had Bestop produce their Jeep TrekTop for the Bronco and using it at all the Off Roadeos and on their pre-production builds. The MIC roof on the two door is entirely removable and replaceable; it is an accessory - not a structural or permanent part of the vehicle. There is no reason NOT to offer two door customers a soft top option, especially if it will cost Ford the sale…. Unless that’s precisely the point.

Ford pre-sold the Bronco BEFORE the chip shortage and the steep inflation on freight, steel, aluminum, gas and energy. Their initial price point was reflective of a cost of production and acceptable margin. That Margin has been since SIGNIFICANTLY eroded. Ford is a for-profit company, who has been the most PROFOUNDLY affected of all automotive manufacturers by the chip shortages…. But they reported strong profits this past quarter, despite being down 700,000 vehicles in production. How? They told their shareholders by “reducing the cost of production” and “increasing the transaction price.” ….Well, how did they decrease the cost of production in a year of rampant inflation? How can they increase the transaction cost (sales price) on a vehicle sold to dealers at a firm discount from MSRP when last years MSRP didn’t account for inflation? They can’t. So what would YOU do?

Ford can’t sell 190,000 Broncos at a loss, nor force their dealers to sell them at no profit….. And they can’t just cancel everyone’s order arbitrarily….. BUT they can delay delivery long enough to get people to cancel their own orders…. Every order cancelled is one less order to fill at a loss. And that is how Ford gets themselves out of this whole mess, and why all of their decisions thus far seem to be made to intentionally antagonize their clients. They don’t want our business. They can’t afford it.

…. I hope I am wrong. We will see. The “tell” will be when 2022MY Order Banks open. If I am right, we are going to see no less than a 10-15% price increase across the board on the Bronco models.

Ford isn’t losing the fight, they’re throwing it.

We don’t know how many are canceling their orders.

Given that they’ll probably raise prices for my22 I’m damn well not canceling.
if only a small % cancel then how is that getting Ford out of this mess at all?

 

[ReimundKrohn]

We don’t know how many are canceling their orders.

Given that they’ll probably raise prices for my22 I’m damn well not canceling.
if only a small % cancel then how is that getting Ford out of this mess at all?

The delays ain’t over yet. My build has been delayed 5x already; make that 6 since week of Sept 27th is now off the table too…. And if they delay long enough the clock runs out on my 2021 VIN? What then? I’ve asked my dealer that, and haven’t gotten an answer.

If Ford really intends to deliver two doors, they could offer the Bestop soft top they’ve been using on them since last October. If they intend to deliver the MIC top “bad batch”, they could release them and let dealers handle the recall on affected units. Both solutions would seem to save Ford money and face; but they chose neither.

They’re seemingly just running out the clock.

 

[WhiteMamba]

My concern is too that there are greater issues at play with the MIC top here, certainly more than the “cosmetic” issues that Ford has copped to.

We have seen/heard the rattles and taps of the MIC top while driving (see ). TFL isn’t the only one to report this, and while the root cause of the issue hasn’t yet been identified, that it’s more than a “cosmetic” issue is unquestionable. A rattle in a new vehicle indicates a poor fit, which leads to movement under load, which leads to wear, which makes the fit worse….It is a problem that exasperates itself.

The “new and improved” MIC roof proposed may address the cosmetic issues sufficiently, but if there is more than cosmetics at play we might find MIC2.0 to be as much a bust as it’s predecessor. At that point, what will Ford do?

I am the kind of guy who likes to think through actions and consequences. I would expect others, including Ford top guns, to have done the same. I cannot help but think that something stinks here.

Ford produced an awful lot of vehicles with “cosmetically defective” roofs they are refusing to release, and get paid for. There is a huge cost to them doing that. Furthermore, Ford is refusing to give us Two Door VIN holders the opportunity to switch to a soft top, despite having had Bestop produce their Jeep TrekTop for the Bronco and using it at all the Off Roadeos and on their pre-production builds. The MIC roof on the two door is entirely removable and replaceable; it is an accessory - not a structural or permanent part of the vehicle. There is no reason NOT to offer two door customers a soft top option, especially if it will cost Ford the sale…. Unless that’s precisely the point.

Ford pre-sold the Bronco BEFORE the chip shortage and the steep inflation on freight, steel, aluminum, gas and energy. Their initial price point was reflective of a cost of production and acceptable margin. That Margin has been since SIGNIFICANTLY eroded. Ford is a for-profit company, who has been the most PROFOUNDLY affected of all automotive manufacturers by the chip shortages…. But they reported strong profits this past quarter, despite being down 700,000 vehicles in production. How? They told their shareholders by “reducing the cost of production” and “increasing the transaction price.” ….Well, how did they decrease the cost of production in a year of rampant inflation? How can they increase the transaction cost (sales price) on a vehicle sold to dealers at a firm discount from MSRP when last years MSRP didn’t account for inflation? They can’t. So what would YOU do?

Ford can’t sell 190,000 Broncos at a loss, nor force their dealers to sell them at no profit….. And they can’t just cancel everyone’s order arbitrarily….. BUT they can delay delivery long enough to get people to cancel their own orders…. Every order cancelled is one less order to fill at a loss. And that is how Ford gets themselves out of this whole mess, and why all of their decisions thus far seem to be made to intentionally antagonize their clients. They don’t want our business. They can’t afford it.

…. I hope I am wrong. We will see. The “tell” will be when 2022MY Order Banks open. If I am right, we are going to see no less than a 10-15% price increase across the board on the Bronco models.

Ford isn’t losing the fight, they’re throwing it.

FFS you need a new hobby…. https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...KuM&vet=1&w=220&h=140&hl=en-us&source=sh/x/im

 

[ReimundKrohn]

FFS you need a new hobby…. https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https://media.tenor.com/images/fa3143e89d76490bdf83835cbd3d9fed/tenor.gif&imgrefurl=https://tenor.com/view/6081931&tbnid=5rCUBDUGjArKuM&vet=1&w=220&h=140&hl=en-us&source=sh/x/im

Hey, it may sound conspiratorial, but Ford has broken a shit tonne of promises already. Why the hell would ANYBODY believe that they’ll keep build date #6 before year end, when the top required to finish it hasn’t been set up for production yet, and the line of recalls, bad batches, and “First” editions is all in front of me?

Fool me once, shame on you, but fool me six times??

 

[Contact]

Cars routinely sit on dealers lots for months. What difference is this?

I think you should ask your accountant about depresiation…

This is true, and don't forget the amount of time the vehicle may sit on the rail car and the various weather elements they may travel through. I'm in Texas, so normally, the vehicle will wait at the loading zone for a few days, then approx. 3-4 weeks rail time, and then maybe a week before being transported from the depot to the dealer. If this were not a "Special Order" it may then sit on the dealer's lot for a few more weeks. Time wise, not much difference. Now I'm having second thoughts about buying any vehicle off the lot. Oh my!

 

[OrlandoBroncos]

I just picked up an F-150 that was built In March and sitting waiting for chips until it was finally sent to the dealer a few weeks ago.

It's in great condition, everything works, and it even has the new car smell.

I wouldn't worry about the Broncos sitting outside.

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