Second Thoughts on Manual Transmission

[Hkak45]

Would driving a base Mustang 2.3 with manual be a good sample of expected feel of clutch and shifter or think set up very differently vs what will be in Bronco?

Different trans in the bronco manual. Plus the way the mustang is set up it probably won’t give you the feeling of driving a bronco. If only they had a manual Ranger to drive?

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[Bmadda]

I was hardcore wheeling manuals without power steering over 25 years ago. I agree it’s more fun, that’s why I’m getting one. But what can a manual do better off road than a modern auto? Serious question. If they were better, Ford would offer a Sasquatch manual.

Better at rocking and hopping up an obstacle...jog that clutch. Better at cleaning tires in mud...pick the gear that gives you the tire speed you need...then hammer down! Better at crawling downhill...who needs trail control? Pretty soon we aren't going to drive vehicles at all, computers will do it all. We gotta enjoy these days while we can!

 

[Lcubed]

I was hardcore wheeling manuals without power steering over 25 years ago. I agree it’s more fun, that’s why I’m getting one. But what can a manual do better off road than a modern auto? Serious question. If they were better, Ford would offer a Sasquatch manual.

If a clutch defeat is enabled, you can start the engine in crawler gear low range with the transmission engaged. Great if you had to restart in the rocks. At worst, you can use the electric starter to crawl

Some vehicles required a clutch defeat, but my old land rover came that way from the factory

 

[nomnom]

I think this is going to depend on what role the bronco plays in your situation. If the bronco is going to be your fun, off-road weekend car that is going to get modded like crazy AND you like manual, do it.

but if this car is going to be your daily drive (my case), maybe consider an auto. For the last 15 years, 5/7 of my cars have been manual and as fun as it is to really 'drive' a manual, it isn't as much fun to commute every day so i will be doing an auto for this one.

later down the road if i get a track car or something, bet that it will be manual but my commuters will be auto.

 

[Dads_bronze_bronco]

Doing truck stuff, like backing up a sloped driveway to hook up a trailer without a spotter (Get out to check, need to go back 3 more inches, Get back in, Push in clutch, release brake and hurry and push throttle, but still roll forward 3 Inches, then chirp the tires as you go back 7 inches and bang the ball on coupler because it was half inch too low. Crap.)

Then pulling that trailer uphill in stop and go holiday traffic in the canyon became a chore and sucked the fun of “connectedness” out of shifting for me.

For me, doing truck stuff the 2.7 10AT will let me enjoy the tedious stuff more and I really really like that combo in my truck.

Better at rocking and hopping up an obstacle...jog that clutch. Better at cleaning tires in mud...pick the gear that gives you the tire speed you need...then hammer down! Better at crawling downhill...who needs trail control? Pretty soon we aren't going to drive vehicles at all, computers will do it all. We gotta enjoy these days while we can!

This is the exact vs? discussion in my head daily. My wife watched the Scotty Kilmer review, and thinks I should get a 2.7. We'll see how she feels about $3500 or whatever it will end up being when the time comes. Towing would be a little easier, but I just hate not being in control.

 

[Flourman]

I get bored with vehicles really easily and a truck or SUV generally doesn't have a "fun to drive" factor. I'm thinking the manual will keep me from getting bored as quick and have a fun factor that the auto just won't have.
Not to mention, the 10 speed auto is designed specifically with one thing in mind which is fuel mileage. It wants to get into the highest gear as quickly as possible. Sport mode should help though.

Have you driven the 10-speed? It is very tuneable to what you are doing. Yes, it keeps revs low for MPG but it also puts shift points in nice spots for the motor. Not to mention the engine braking it does. I’m continually amazed by the engine braking mine does coming down mountain passes while towing.

 

[Studawg]

Better at rocking and hopping up an obstacle...jog that clutch. Better at cleaning tires in mud...pick the gear that gives you the tire speed you need...then hammer down! Better at crawling downhill...who needs trail control? Pretty soon we aren't going to drive vehicles at all, computers will do it all. We gotta enjoy these days while we can!

In a modern auto, you can select any gear you want to be in. Put it in sport mode and just select the gear.

I don't disagree that the manual is more fun in any scenario, but I don't see how you can deny that modern autos with all the traction aids are better off road than a stick and clutch.

 

[BeerForMyHorses]

On top of that doing truck stuff, like backing up a sloped driveway to hook up a trailer without a spotter (Get out to check, need to go back 3 more inches, Get back in, Push in clutch, release brake and hurry and push throttle, but still roll forward 3 Inches, then chirp the tires as you go back 7 inches and bang the ball on coupler because it was half inch too low. Crap.)

Oh boy you described this perfectly! Sure brought back some memories...

I learned to drive a manual in 1990 Chevy 1500 V8 5speed in a city on a hill (think similar to San Fran). The slanted roads with that V8 sure made for some sweaty redlights! I'd be praying the person behind me didn't pull up too close. I'd either A. push the clutch in too long and roll into them, B. stall out and be embarrassed, or C. Screech the tires sounding like I was drag racing ?. But it sure made me good at driving a manual

It's been about 5 years since I sold that truck and therefore drove a manual, but it's still not enough to deter me from getting one! It was too much fun once you get good at it

 

[lowmpg]

Aside from preference or doing serious crawling, I don't know why anyone would 'want' a manual in 2020. ( I've had at least 7 manual vehicles)

 

[uncledoodoo]

Time to give it up

I've been manual my whole life but it's just silly to keep it up at this point

Manuals used to be faster, more efficient, cheaper
Not really the case anymore

I'm not doing extra work shifting in order to have a slower and less efficient car. At this point buying the manual is just being a grumpy old person who complains about the music kids listen to these days

Manuals are STILL cheaper
Serious drag racers have preferred automatics since the 60s
Most "automatics" these days are just auto-actuated manuals
Manuals are and will always be more fun to drive, if you doubt it just teach your kids how to drive one and ask them which is more fun.

 

[Used2jeep]

I like manual transmissions and used to think it would be a cheaper alternative than an auto.

But, how long before the clutch and pressure plate needs to be replaced? And what would that cost to have someone do it?

Probably about $1k but how long it holds out depends on how much you slip.

 

[Laminar]

Have you driven any recent sports cars? The Camaro with the 10 speed auto is reeeally good at learning and predicting driving behavior. It holds gears when it senses you want to, and the different drive modes radically change how it selects and shifts gears. Porsche's PDK automatic is borderline telepathic in knowing exactly what you want to do. Sure, the worst autos suck, but the best ones are reeeally good.

Most "automatics" these days are just auto-actuated manuals

They're not. There have been only a couple of auto-actuated manuals, like the E46 M3's Getrag 420G which was a manual transmission with an automated shifter/clutch. There are DCTs, those have gearsets similar to a manual transmission and clutches but there's two of them so it's not really just an automated manual trans.

The vast majority of automatics out there in production are still torque-converter automatics with planetary gearsets and solenoids and fluid pressure control circuits just like they've had for decades.

That's my beef with most auto transmissions - that marshmallow between the engine and the drivetrain that dampens and softens response. The torque converter is a wonderful thing for absorbing shock loads and getting an engine up into its powerband. It works really well when offroading and towing - if I was serious about rock crawling or heavy towing I'd go auto for sure. But you lose the instantaneous response when the engine and drivetrain aren't solidly connected together, and it makes things feel lazy to me. That's why I'm sticking with the manual even if I have to suffer through the weaker and worse-sounding engine.

 

[Hkak45]

Have you driven any recent sports cars? The Camaro with the 10 speed auto is reeeally good at learning and predicting driving behavior. It holds gears when it senses you want to, and the different drive modes radically change how it selects and shifts gears. Porsche's PDK automatic is borderline telepathic in knowing exactly what you want to do. Sure, the worst autos suck, but the best ones are reeeally good.

A recent sports car in Auto for me was the tipping point to going manual. My vette sucks at guessing what I want to do and Yes I did drive it how I wanted it to drive so the trans can learn my style and it still sucks. I’ll be cruising down the road, come to a stop sign and give it A LOT of gas to get past traffic and the transmission goes “waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, OH CRAP HE WANTS TO GO FAST, MY BAD” and then 6-10 seconds later all the ponies are unleashed. Not to mention all the times it doesn’t understand what gear to be in lol

 

[Laminar]

A recent sports car in Auto for me was the tipping point to going manual. My vette sucks at guessing what I want to do

I mean, I wouldn't expect a Chevette to be a very responsive driver's car.

 

[Lowcountry Bronco]

Would driving a base Mustang 2.3 with manual be a good sample of expected feel of clutch and shifter or think set up very differently vs what will be in Bronco?

They're both from Getrag, the Mustang is the MT82 six-speed and the Bronco will be the MT88 6+C and is not supposed to based on the one from the Mustang. Also I think the new Mustang is already putting out 310 hp on their version of the ecoboost plus it's a 1000 pounds lighter, has a higher center of gravity, etc. Best comparison would probably be the Ranger 2.3 with the 10 speed for handling and overall feel but what's a visit to a Ford dealer without testing a Mustang! Might have to look ahead for one with a manual though.

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