Now that the dust has settled.

[adam1991]

Oh I dislike both the trend and the narrative behind the trend equally. The overly-complex nature of modern vehicles is mainly due to government overreach (EPA, NHTSA, etc), and partly due to manipulation of consumers into believing they need pointless features, too many choices, and constant updates.

I've worked in engineering for 20+ years, and about 7 of those were mainly automotive. I did work for almost every major auto manufacturer and their tier 1/2/3 suppliers out there to some capacity. The things I witnessed were absolutely asinine- overly complicated for the sake of being overly complicated. I don't work in automotive anymore. I swear, most people I interacted with were void of a soul and brain (especially at the project management level, some of them were flat out evil).

Unfortunately, consumers are too indoctrinated into thinking this is somehow "progress." Real progress is simplification.

"simplify, and add lightness"

I'm waiting for the manufacturer who has the balls to do what VW did with the Beetle. Light touches, same basic car for years.

I read the book Car, about the design and manufacture of the 2nd gen Taurus. I remember seeing that car and thinking, OMG how ugly. Yes, gen 1 was a superb departure from the LTD--and frankly, they should have kept it largely as-is from a design standpoint. Instead, they tried to out-Taurus the Taurus. And, IMHO, failed miserably.

The real good people know when they've gone too far, and to step back away from that.

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[P52Ranch]

Would there be an Odd Job trim level?

That Ranchero was awesome. It didn’t sag one bit with that 5,000 pound crushed Lincoln in the bed.

 

[Zeaks]

"simplify, and add lightness"

I'm waiting for the manufacturer who has the balls to do what VW did with the Beetle. Light touches, same basic car for years.

Like the Wrangler? The TJ was not far from the CJs and YJ. Then the Jk was a pretty big step and the JL is not far from that. Sure there’s plenty of electronics in them now but they’re still pretty basic. Definitely less complicated than the Bronco. I really like the JL but like the Bronco better so I was willing to have the more complex vehicle. I like that Jeep has stuck to the same principle despite certain buyers expecting it to be as good of a driver as whatever luxury SUV they’ve been driving just so they can be the cool person in a Jeep. I know they’ll eventually cave and stray from what makes it a Jeep but hopefully they stay true as long as they can.

Hopefully the Bronco stays true to what was started but there are still plenty of buyers expecting them to be something they’re not.

 

[MadMan4BamaNATL]

Oh I dislike both the trend and the narrative behind the trend equally. The overly-complex nature of modern vehicles is mainly due to government overreach (EPA, NHTSA, etc), and partly due to manipulation of consumers into believing they need pointless features, too many choices, and constant updates.

I've worked in engineering for 20+ years, and about 7 of those were mainly automotive. I did work for almost every major auto manufacturer and their tier 1/2/3 suppliers out there to some capacity. The things I witnessed were absolutely asinine- overly complicated for the sake of being overly complicated. I don't work in automotive anymore. I swear, most people I interacted with were void of a soul and brain (especially at the project management level, some of them were flat out evil).

Unfortunately, consumers are too indoctrinated into thinking this is somehow "progress." Real progress is simplification.

I really like that last sentence. "Real progress is simplification". That used to be and maybe still is the mantra of Apple, which has been my favorite company since I was a kid with my first computer, and Apple II in 1983.

I get the need for improving safety, as many more walk away from accidents today than 25 years ago in a similar collision. However, the weight is an issue, and complexity is indeed another.

I love how modular the Bronco can be, while it isn't as much so under the hood for a normal guy.

Thing is guys, things never stay the same unless you're dead and I have no issues with technology or advancement. I do off-road, but my 2 Door Badlands is loaded and the tech mostly is good, although I rarely use it all. The 360 cameras are awesome on trails though.

However, the EV thing is a different story. Nevermind the politics and all, @zombie made a post with the most sense on the topic. In fact, maybe the best I've seen as someone else pointed out earlier.

I'll take one if it could charge quickly and get 500 true miles, maybe even a real 350 or so would be ok, but I can't trust them and not in the backcountry where I spend a ton of my recreational time. Will I switch from outdoor fun? NEVER! I'm Southern and like the woods and will until I"m dead. If that means I keep my ICE Bronco for 20 or more years, so be it. They will still sell Dino juice 20 years from now because they aren't really trying to figure out a balance in rural communities between development and synergy with the communities, cultures, and nature.

 

[adam1991]

but there are still plenty of buyers expecting them to be something they’re not.

well, I guess ignorance is bliss. I went in with zero expectations other than "you know, this is something way different than I would normally do...here's my money".

 

[adam1991]

That used to be and maybe still is the mantra of Apple

Mac guy since 1988 here. Almost a dozen of them in my house.

That being said, I don't think that's the mantra of Apple anymore. Remember when it just worked? Then there were dark days, then lighter days, but now we're into evil days.

 

[bloominguez]

The one I was behind was modulating braking, as one would normally do when going around a bend. Me, I would be off the go-pedal and onto the brake pedal--which lights up brake lights. Not stomping on it, just lightly braking. Light braking should always activate the brake lights.

So your message is, if the one-pedal asshole is not planning to come to a complete stop, if he's just slowing down like what happens all the time in traffic, then the design of the car creates asshole behavior of not activating the brake lights that are there to signal your actions to other drivers.

Safe driving demands being you predictable. When you're going to deviate from what you're doing--be it slowing/stopping or turning--the way to be predictable to those around you is using your lights. Brake lights, turn signals. A Tesla driver choosing one-pedal driving knowing full well that his signal lights will not activate as he modulates the go pedal to activate and intensify regen braking, is choosing to be unpredictable.

Know your vehicle. So what if it gives you a tool like one pedal driving. If that one pedal driving makes you more dangerous on the road, don't use it. You're not obligated to use it.

If you like and use turn signals, why would you use an active braking system that deliberately does not activate brake lights?

I've been in vehicles that *do* turn on the brake lights for regen. I think some manufacturers are doing this well, and apparently some are not.

I thought I saw the proper behavior (lighting brake lights when there is slowing due to regen) in a Toyota, but this is the best explanation I found online after a very quick search:
https://mygarage.honda.com/s/articl... lights will come,when the vehicle is stopped.
"Your brake lights will come on during substantial deceleration and when the vehicle is stopped. If gentle regen is engaged, brake lights won't come on."

I think EV and hybrid manufacturers are still figuring this out, and doing different things. That is, it appears some are not lighting brake lights if the regen is very light (similar to going to a lower gear but not braking, perhaps), but they are when regen braking is heavy enough.


I found this online:


See this comment, which seems to apply to this discussion:
Since Jan 2021 in the EU/UK, braking at a rate above 1.3 m/s2 the lights have to come on. Below that it's up to the manufacturer. Knowing Tesla, they've got it set right at the limit OR they refuse to update older vehicles.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:42023X0401

5.2.22.2. Requirements for vehicles equipped with automatically commanded braking and/or regenerative braking which produce a retarding force (e.g. upon release of the accelerator control) ( 6 ).​

​

Deceleration by automatically commanded braking and/or regenerative braking​

≤ 1,3 m/s 2 May generate the signal​

> 1,3 m/s 2 Shall generate the signal​

​

Once generated, the signal shall be kept as long as a deceleration demand persists. However, the signal may be suppressed at standstill or when the deceleration demand falls below 1,3 m/s 2 or that value which generated the signal, whichever is lower. An appropriate measure (e.g. switch-off-hysteresis, averaging, time delay) shall be implemented in order to avoid fast changes of the signal resulting in flickering of the stop lamps.​

Having said all of the above, when I'm on a motorcycle and I come off the throttle I definitely give a few light pulls on the brake lever to flash the brake lights (it's also easier/quicker with the hand, so why not). Reason being, a motorcycle can have much more engine braking than a car, so I do want to indicate that I'm slowing. This is especially true if I'm at high rpm on the bike. In general, people don't have any idea how motorcycles perform (and I'm more vulnerable), so I try to "communicate" even more than when I'm in a car.

 

[adam1991]

"Your brake lights will come on during substantial deceleration and when the vehicle is stopped. If gentle regen is engaged, brake lights won't come on."

That's simply designing the car like...a car. Lift off the gas, and all cars start to slow down. At a slow rate easily managed by the traffic around it.

So it's a wild west out there, just like with user ergonmics. Big iPad in the car requiring fine motor control and attention away from the road? That should have been stopped hard the moment Tesla proposed it.

 

[bloominguez]

That's simply designing the car like...a car. Lift off the gas, and all cars start to slow down. At a slow rate easily managed by the traffic around it.

So it's a wild west out there, just like with user ergonmics. Big iPad in the car requiring fine motor control and attention away from the road? That should have been stopped hard the moment Tesla proposed it.

Exactly. Some companies are doing it well, in my very limited experience driving hybrids.

I hope you caught the comment I quoted. That person was also very skeptical of Tesla:
"Knowing Tesla, they've got it set right at the limit OR they refuse to update older vehicles."

I also agree on the iPad. I don't want it. Happy to have a few vehicles that have (mostly) well designed buttons and switches. Not everything is great in the Bronco (cough--dash display), but Ford absolutely nailed the steering wheel buttons. I can change volume, skip forward in my podcast, engage and adjust cruise control, etc. all without ever looking down.

 

[Nc211]

........because they aren't really trying to figure out a balance in rural communities between development and synergy with the communities, cultures, and nature.

And let us hope they don't anytime soon, or at least not before my time comes to ditch the DC life and head back to my coastal rural stomping grounds myself in another 15 years or so. Trust me, the $8 Pumpkin Spice Latte's aren't worth it.

I'm in the same boat as you on the tech, and I do like how Ford integrated just the right amount of it into this Bronco. I have the lux package and find all of it very easy to use and useful when compared to the majority of other new cars out there that are loaded with screens and "menus". I can't stand any of it anymore and refuse to buy into it. I love Apple because it works, and on that off chance that it doesn't, 90% of the time just turning it off/on fixes it. It's not that I don't understand tech, it's that I want it to work for me, and not me working for it. But, I'm also 51 now and moving past the shiny new object syndrome of life. Heck, I'm of the age now that I don't want the new car. I want the used car that I couldn't afford back when it was new!

RTR!

 

[DarthLincoln]

I think some of you should get a room (i.e.start a different thread where you can complain about EVs, Government requirements for OEMs to offer more hybrids/EV choices, regen braking not illuminating brake lights, clouds, people who don’t use turn signals, and young whippersnappers who don’t know how to drive manuals or drive among manuals so this thread can get back on the topic of Broncos).

……but since this hijack has already occurred…I worked at two automakers making EVs, and both used deceleration rate to trigger illumination of the brake lights. At one, they used 1.0 m/s^2 threshold, and they also factored in when going downhill where you may be braking even tho gravity is causing the vehicle not to decelerate. Thus, if you have moderate or strong Regen, brake lights come on before you fully lift. It definitely requires engineers to think about what they are doing, not just comply with regulations.

Apparently the Hyundai Ioniq 5 is one of those annoying vehicles that does not illuminate the brake lights in one-pedal mode unless the go pedal is fully released -- so that is one car to be aware of when following ()

 

[Rydfree]

Hopefully the Bronco stays true to what was started but there are still plenty of buyers expecting them to be something they’re not.

Hopefully Ford will just keep tweaking the basic body design we currently have. If some want a different style as in a permeant hard top or a large F-150 inspired body, then they could create a separate model as is the Bronco Sport. Bronco, Bronco Sport & the Bronco Expedition, lol.

 

[BroncoBeachBuggy]

I still can't believe I got my '22 Base Sasquatch 2.7 adv for $38,000. Haven't had any problems, but am still going to get an extended warranty (35,500 miles now), just in case.

That price for a SAS just a few years ago blows my mind with what I see out there these days.

 

[BroncoBeachBuggy]

I've also noticed that people don't give any space at lights on hills anymore, they'll come up right on your bumper without even a thought that the vehicle might come back a few inches before going forward...

I've been driving manuals forever, so no worries for me - but Ford has been smart with the Bronco. With the 7MT it won't roll back on a hill for about 3 seconds after you take your foot off the brake. If a newbie, you can even drive into 1st gear with the e-break on, so put it on if on a steep hill with car behind you.

 

[Poppavein]

There are plenty of drivers with their left foot on the brake making up for the EVs that don’t light up the brakes.

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