My feelings regarding ADM

[CyberOrangeFanatic]

Your post doesn’t address the main issue going on with Bronco sales costs right now. If a dealership orders your Bronco and agrees to charge MSRP, why are they given a pass the charge more when it’s delivered. Please explain.

I think that's a deceptive tactic, most especially if a price agreement was already made and signed. I wouldn't be okay with changing anything already agreed and signed. I do think the dealerships should have a bit of leeway on unsigned agreements, however, given the changes in the sales market for vehicles in the last 12-18 months. If you didn't have a signed agreement and the dealership wants to throw in $1K-$3K worth of add-ons so they can make a few bucks, I think that's entirely reasonable.

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[mybikeisred]

I always wonder why msrp is the line in the sand for people. FORD really says it’s manufactured suggested retail price. Yet people are like I won’t pay one cent over msrp. I’m just curious why. In a down car economy you wouldn’t pay close to sticker it would be closer to invoice or under invoice depending on how bad the dealership wanted to move it. Anyways why msrp. If there is a scarcity and that drives prices up well isn’t that just the cost of what you want reflected in the current market. Why is it so offensive to people.

I get what you’re saying and kind of agree. MSRP is an arbitrary number, a product’s value is what people will pay for it. If msrp was 15% higher with no markup, people would feel better about paying it than paying a 15% markup over msrp. People are just pissed because msrp seemed like a promise and they feel like they’re being gouged when a dealer wants to charge market value. They understand that market value is dynamic, but they had an expectation when they configured the vehicle that they basically ordered off a menu. Unlike buying lobster at a fancy restaurant, that menu had clear pricing.

It’s offensive because Ford laid out the prices way before production to gauge demand and give them an idea of how many they needed to produce, and then when they failed in their ability to supply that demand, a lot of dealers took advantage of buyers who expected to pay those menu prices that they agreed to by basically holding their order ransom knowing that there’s another buyer willing to pay more.

Could you imagine going to a restaurant and ordering dinner, but as they’re bringing your dinner to the table, they tell you that you have to pay 20% more because there’s someone who just got seated at another table who’s hungry and willing to pay more for your dinner so they don’t have to order their own food and wait for it?

I guess the short answer is…because we didn’t reserve our broncos in the current market, its not our fault that Ford couldn’t produce them before the market got to where it is now.

 

[Havok]

Have you ever bought a highly desirable vehicle that had a global shortage of inventory before? My guess is no based on your comment, but please let me know if I am incorrect. The ADM stuff isn't new to sports car enthusiasts or short-run special trims (i.e. Ford F-150 Raptors), but it's now trickling down into regular inventory due to the supply chain chaos, especially for the highly desirable vehicles like the Bronco. This is good old-fashioned supply/demand economics at work. Love it or hate it, it's the reality of the world at the moment.

Can we please exclude the

I think that's a deceptive tactic, most especially if a price agreement was already made and signed. I wouldn't be okay with changing anything already agreed and signed. I do think the dealerships should have a bit of leeway on unsigned agreements, however, given the changes in the sales market for vehicles in the last 12-18 months. If you didn't have a signed agreement and the dealership wants to throw in $1K-$3K worth of add-ons so they can make a few bucks, I think that's entirely reasonable.

I think that's a deceptive tactic, most especially if a price agreement was already made and signed. I wouldn't be okay with changing anything already agreed and signed. I do think the dealerships should have a bit of leeway on unsigned agreements, however, given the changes in the sales market for vehicles in the last 12-18 months. If you didn't have a signed agreement and the dealership wants to throw in $1K-$3K worth of add-ons so they can make a few bucks, I think that's entirely reasonable.

”Entirely reasonable” to charge more than was agreed upon when the order was placed??????? Sorry that I can’t comprehend that opinion. It is really hard to get a dealer to put anything in writing on an order that wouldn’t require hiring an attorney and paying legal fees if the dealer decided that agreement wasn’t valid. And if it’s verbal or in some form of writing, there’s many examples on this forum of dealerships screwing over reservation holders who waited over a year to get theirs delivered and then getting hit with ADM. where do you draw the line on what is acceptable?

 

[Havok]

Have you ever bought a highly desirable vehicle that had a global shortage of inventory before? My guess is no based on your comment, but please let me know if I am incorrect. The ADM stuff isn't new to sports car enthusiasts or short-run special trims (i.e. Ford F-150 Raptors), but it's now trickling down into regular inventory due to the supply chain chaos, especially for the highly desirable vehicles like the Bronco. This is good old-fashioned supply/demand economics at work. Love it or hate it, it's the reality of the world at the moment.

None of your reasoning applies to those who reserved and then ordered a Bronco and were told what it was going to cost before production ever began. So please stop with the supply/demand angle.

I don’t think anyone on this forum has issue with a dealership charging market price for a Bronco on their lot that isn’t a reservation holder’s order. But then the question needs to be asked, how did the dealer get that Bronco to sell?

Did the reservation holder walk away because the dealership changed the deal and charged ADM to get the reservation holder to walk away from the purchase? If so, then that’s a problem and seems to what many dealerships are trying to do to their customers.

 

[PDiddy]

I'm probably in the minority here, but in today's market paying $ 8k ADM for a Bronco isn't as bad of a deal as it might appear, at least for some buyers. If I need to buy a car now and my choices are 1) a new Bronco at 15% over MSRP or 2) a used car that costs 40% more than it did a year ago, it likely makes a lot more sense financially to buy the Bronco even with the ADM. Plus you get a really cool car as well.

Here's the link to the USA Today story on the increase in used car prices

Yup, if you need to buy a car now, your going to pay more for it. Personally, I wouldn’t consider buying a car in this market for that reason. Buying our bronco for MSRP in October was the most we ever paid for a vehicle. We always paid just over or under MSRP. Prices are crazy now.

 

[Broncodave]

I posted this earlier, but here it is again.

82% — The percentage of buyers who paid above the sticker price for a new car last month, according to consumer research site Edmunds.com, an unprecedented number as pandemic-related supply-chain problems stretch the new-vehicle shortage into a second year.

 

[Havok]

I posted this earlier, but here it is again.

82% — The percentage of buyers who paid above the sticker price for a new car last month, according to consumer research site Edmunds.com, an unprecedented number as pandemic-related supply-chain problems stretch the new-vehicle sho

 

[Havok]

I posted this earlier, but here it is again.

82% — The percentage of buyers who paid above the sticker price for a new car last month, according to consumer research site Edmunds.com, an unprecedented number as pandemic-related supply-chain problems stretch the new-vehicle shortage into a second year.

How does this apply to those that discussed and had confirmation from their dealership that the transaction price was at MSRP?

 

[CyberOrangeFanatic]

”Entirely reasonable” to charge more than was agreed upon when the order was placed??????? Sorry that I can’t comprehend that opinion. It is really hard to get a dealer to put anything in writing on an order that wouldn’t require hiring an attorney and paying legal fees if the dealer decided that agreement wasn’t valid. And if it’s verbal or in some form of writing, there’s many examples on this forum of dealerships screwing over reservation holders who waited over a year to get theirs delivered and then getting hit with ADM. where do you draw the line on what is acceptable?

I've already been exceptionally clear where I draw the line. It sounds like you have an issue with it. That's your prerogative. It's also my prerogative to tell you that what's happening in the Bronco market is happening with every desirable vehicle (and in plenty of other markets, too). I'm walking away from this conversation because there are plenty of pissed off people in this board who A) haven't gotten what they wanted and B. who haven't had a bird's eye view into the supply chain chaos. To each his or her own. I've seen the supply chain madness up close and personal and it is horrible on a global scale. ADM's make sense in that global view.

 

[‘21OBX]

Have you ever bought a highly desirable vehicle that had a global shortage of inventory before? My guess is no based on your comment, but please let me know if I am incorrect. The ADM stuff isn't new to sports car enthusiasts or short-run special trims (i.e. Ford F-150 Raptors), but it's now trickling down into regular inventory due to the supply chain chaos, especially for the highly desirable vehicles like the Bronco. This is good old-fashioned supply/demand economics at work. Love it or hate it, it's the reality of the world at the moment.

Is it really that desirable tho? If you do an internet search they are everywhere for sale with anywhere from 20-3000 miles on them. When I was looking for a superduty a couple years back there were less of them available in a trim I wanted then there are bronco’s now. Seems only a brand new one is hard to find. If they were as highly sought after as people think there Would not be the volume of them for sale. There is a lot of hype that’s for sure.

 

[Broncodave]

How does this apply to those that discussed and had confirmation from their dealership that the transaction price was at MSRP?

It doesn't. I was addressing what the OP stated.

"On the other hand, If you walked into THAT dealership today, wanting a Bronco, and were faced with what could be a 8 to 18 month wait to get a delivery, the $8000 ADM with instant delivery might be well worth it."

 

[bigblueboing]

I get what you’re saying and kind of agree. MSRP is an arbitrary number, a product’s value is what people will pay for it. If msrp was 15% higher with no markup, people would feel better about paying it than paying a 15% markup over msrp. People are just pissed because msrp seemed like a promise and they feel like they’re being gouged when a dealer wants to charge market value. They understand that market value is dynamic, but they had an expectation when they configured the vehicle that they basically ordered off a menu. Unlike buying lobster at a fancy restaurant, that menu had clear pricing.

It’s offensive because Ford laid out the prices way before production to gauge demand and give them an idea of how many they needed to produce, and then when they failed in their ability to supply that demand, a lot of dealers took advantage of buyers who expected to pay those menu prices that they agreed to by basically holding their order ransom knowing that there’s another buyer willing to pay more.

Could you imagine going to a restaurant and ordering dinner, but as they’re bringing your dinner to the table, they tell you that you have to pay 20% more because there’s someone who just got seated at another table who’s hungry and willing to pay more for your dinner so they don’t have to order their own food and wait for it?

I guess the short answer is…because we didn’t reserve our broncos in the current market, its not our fault that Ford couldn’t produce them before the market got to where it is now.

can you imagine going to a restaurant and telling the owner you’ll only pay what he paid for the lobster? If you didn’t want to pay market value then you shouldn’t ever negotiate a car price. You should just pay sticker price and be done.
This will pass and you’ll all be back to I won’t pay more than 100 over invoice energy. Lol.

 

[mybikeisred]

can you imagine going to a restaurant and telling the owner you’ll only pay what he paid for the lobster? If you didn’t want to pay market value then you shouldn’t ever negotiate a car price. You should just pay sticker price and be done.
This will pass and you’ll all be back to I won’t pay more than 100 over invoice energy. Lol.

No one is expecting to buy their bronco at cost.

 

[bigblueboing]

No one is expecting to buy their bronco at cost.

You expected to buy your windstar at cost though. Why. Why is it ok to negotiate down but not up. It’s a hypocritical viewpoint to expect dealers to just do what you want. I don’t agree with it all. And if I was a dealer and I had someone buying at msrp I would take that over him walking for 2500$. It absolutely goes both ways and if I was the salesman I would have told my manger off and walked right out of the store. Bcuz now you’re talking away my living.

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