lockers quit working

[0ne]

Oh great, now we have to be electrical engineers too with these Broncos? Some of these overly dramatic stories make me wonder if I’m being trolled constantly on this forum, wtf, I mean of course it was a Jeep saving the day and no food or water left??

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[flip]

Here's the thread that talks about the current stepping down:

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...dive-overview-skip-if-youre-tldr-prone.41973/

This thread may have some info relevant to the original topic of this thread too:

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/transfer-case-technical-discussion.52097/

Was running through some of the pin point tests and found some voltages but not the amps. The suck is not being able to try and diag in the field when this stuff happens. If you had the wiring diagrams you could possibly back probe wires to see if there was voltage present but that just tells you wiring up to a point is good or signal is present when it should or shouldn't be.

I agree, this is an issue Ford needs to address to avoid being stuck out in BFE with no backup. I get why the systems rely on each other to function as designed but at some point, you can do without traction control and just need 4x4 to get your butt out of whatever situation you're in.

 

[Merc4x4]

Oh great, now we have to be electrical engineers too with these Broncos? Some of these overly dramatic stories make me wonder if I’m being trolled constantly on this forum, wtf, I mean of course it was a Jeep saving the day and no food or water left??

The mercedes gwagen uses electric -> vacuum -> hydraulic to lock the front / rear diff. Not sure what they were thinking...

 

[Dingbat]

The mercedes gwagen uses electric -> vacuum -> hydraulic to lock the front / rear diff. Not sure what they were thinking...

That way you can be certain that if anything goes wrong something critical is unable to function!

 

[Merc4x4]

Was running through some of the pin point tests and found some voltages but not the amps. The suck is not being able to try and diag in the field when this stuff happens. If you had the wiring diagrams you could possibly back probe wires to see if there was voltage present but that just tells you wiring up to a point is good or signal is present when it should or shouldn't be.

I agree, this is an issue Ford needs to address to avoid being stuck out in BFE with no backup. I get why the systems rely on each other to function as designed but at some point, you can do without traction control and just need 4x4 to get your butt out of whatever situation you're in.

I would love to see a limp-home 4x4 mode that allows transfer case and rear / front diff lock overrides. It could even limit the speed to 15mph.

 

[flip]

I would love to see a limp-home 4x4 mode that allows transfer case and rear / front diff lock overrides. It could even limit the speed to 15mph.

Exactly. The mechanical should not be held hostage by the electrical. This is why people hate technology in vehicles.

 

[Dingbat]

Was running through some of the pin point tests and found some voltages but not the amps. The suck is not being able to try and diag in the field when this stuff happens. If you had the wiring diagrams you could possibly back probe wires to see if there was voltage present but that just tells you wiring up to a point is good or signal is present when it should or shouldn't be.

I agree, this is an issue Ford needs to address to avoid being stuck out in BFE with no backup. I get why the systems rely on each other to function as designed but at some point, you can do without traction control and just need 4x4 to get your butt out of whatever situation you're in.

Is there anything you could get an amp clamp around without major surgery, or is it all wrapped up and hidden away?

 

[77and21]

Oh great, now we have to be electrical engineers too with these Broncos? Some of these overly dramatic stories make me wonder if I’m being trolled constantly on this forum, wtf, I mean of course it was a Jeep saving the day and no food or water left??

Sorry if it seems overly dramatic but that's the way it happened. I wasn't happy about it either. I've been a Bronco guy for over 30 years.

 

[flip]

Is there anything you could get an amp clamp around without major surgery, or is it all wrapped up and hidden away?

Most of what would need to be checked is in harnesses or hard to access.

 

[Dingbat]

Most of what would need to be checked is in harnesses or hard to access.

Might could get a set of the same connector and make a jumper where the solenoid plugs into the harness (assuming there is a connector there) and take amperage on the jumper.

 

[flip]

Might could get a set of the same connector and make a jumper where the solenoid plugs into the harness (assuming there is a connector there) and take amperage on the jumper.

You could get voltage off the pigtail if it was just tapped into the circuit but to find amperage the DVOM would need to be in line with the wire or with a clamp, around the wire from module to actuator. Not sure if there's a PID in FDRS or Forscan that shows current but if there is, would likely only show voltage and duty cycle. In this situation, I'd be more interested in seeing a voltage measurement rather than current. If the wire(s) hot, the circuit is most likely working correctly. Very rare to have voltage on a circuit, after ruling out a short to ground or power, and problem in the wire itself not to carry full current. Simply, you could have enough strands in the wire to show resistance within range and carry some current but also not be able to carry a load. These are a royal biatch to diagnose and usually rather rare.

If signal and wires are good and the thing still doesn't lock, you can assume the actuator is bad or there's a mechanical failure in the diff. In this case it's more likely one of the faults is completely locking the 4x4 system completely out as a self preservation measure. I disagree with this strategy if it's a matter of some sensors disagreeing with each other. If they're going to disable it with absolutely no fail safe or way to force it to engage, it needs to be based on a critical component/system failure. At least with the older systems with a shift motor on the trans, you could pull the motor and turn the cam to force it into gear provided nothing broke internally. They also defaulted the vacuum hubs (however problematic that system was) to engage when the circuit lost vacuum. If you broke the actuator or vacuum hose came off it defaulted to engaged. The bronco design has no such backups, it either works or it doesn't and there's nothing you can do to force it.

 

[Dingbat]

You could get voltage off the pigtail if it was just tapped into the circuit but to find amperage the DVOM would need to be in line with the wire or with a clamp, around the wire from module to actuator. Not sure if there's a PID in FDRS or Forscan that shows current but if there is, would likely only show voltage and duty cycle. In this situation, I'd be more interested in seeing a voltage measurement rather than current. If the wire(s) hot, the circuit is most likely working correctly. Very rare to have voltage on a circuit, after ruling out a short to ground or power, and problem in the wire itself not to carry full current. Simply, you could have enough strands in the wire to show resistance within range and carry some current but also not be able to carry a load. These are a royal biatch to diagnose and usually rather rare.

If signal and wires are good and the thing still doesn't lock, you can assume the actuator is bad or there's a mechanical failure in the diff. In this case it's more likely one of the faults is completely locking the 4x4 system completely out as a self preservation measure. I disagree with this strategy if it's a matter of some sensors disagreeing with each other. If they're going to disable it with absolutely no fail safe or way to force it to engage, it needs to be based on a critical component/system failure. At least with the older systems with a shift motor on the trans, you could pull the motor and turn the cam to force it into gear provided nothing broke internally. They also defaulted the vacuum hubs (however problematic that system was) to engage when the circuit lost vacuum. If you broke the actuator or vacuum hose came off it defaulted to engaged. The bronco design has no such backups, it either works or it doesn't and there's nothing you can do to force it.

I wasn't looking at this from a diagnosing a failure stand point but rather seeing what the factory setup is sending to the actuator in order to duplicate it. In the other thread, it was suggested that the current to the actuator may be limited, for reasons unknown.

My suggestion with the jumper was to run it in series between the factory wiring from the module and the actuator. This is simply to have a point to get a clamp around to read the amperage and find out what the stock system is sending to the actuator when functioning properly.

For my own personal interests, I have a base on order that I would like to someday add a rear locker to. One way I could see doing this would be to grab a salvage axle out of a model with a factory locker and the same drive ratio. I'd run it manually through one or two of the AUX switches and would like to mimic the stock signal.

For someone looking to run a parallel circuit for emergency use, as suggested earlier in this thread, it might be nice to do the same.

 

[flip]

I wasn't looking at this from a diagnosing a failure stand point but rather seeing what the factory setup is sending to the actuator in order to duplicate it. In the other thread, it was suggested that the current to the actuator may be limited, for reasons unknown.

My suggestion with the jumper was to run it in series between the factory wiring from the module and the actuator. This is simply to have a point to get a clamp around to read the amperage and find out what the stock system is sending to the actuator when functioning properly.

For my own personal interests, I have a base on order that I would like to someday add a rear locker to. One way I could see doing this would be to grab a salvage axle out of a model with a factory locker and the same drive ratio. I'd run it manually through one or two of the AUX switches and would like to mimic the stock signal.

For someone looking to run a parallel circuit for emergency use, as suggested earlier in this thread, it might be nice to do the same.

The initial current is to make sure the dog has sufficient force to overcome any initial bind. Once it's seated it doesn't require as much current/force to keep it in the engaged position. One of the unknowns is how much current over what period of time is too much for the actuator before it fails. If you want to add a fail safe to get you out of a bad situation you might be able to run a straight wire from the battery with a circuit breaker or switched relay. If you want to mimic factory, beside a little more research to figure out what the strategy and amperage, would require some sort of controller that can step the current down.

 

[Dingbat]

The initial current is to make sure the dog has sufficient force to overcome any initial bind. Once it's seated it doesn't require as much current/force to keep it in the engaged position. One of the unknowns is how much current over what period of time is too much for the actuator before it fails. If you want to add a fail safe to get you out of a bad situation you might be able to run a straight wire from the battery with a circuit breaker or switched relay. If you want to mimic factory, beside a little more research to figure out what the strategy and amperage, would require some sort of controller that can step the current down.

Clearly.
Personally, I'm not worried about building a control circuit for it. Worst case scenario is if I get in over my head I buy my BAS engineer and electrical team lead a beer or two. Heck, I could probably get the BAS guy to write logic to an old board for me to control the whole thing. Couple relays and a power supply...
I just need to know what the signal is.

 

[flip]

Clearly.
Personally, I'm not worried about building a control circuit for it. Worst case scenario is if I get in over my head I buy my BAS engineer and electrical team lead a beer or two. Heck, I could probably get the BAS guy to write logic to an old board for me to control the whole thing. Couple relays and a power supply...
I just need to know what the signal is.

Ford could solve this by putting in an override switch and stripped down secondary AWD module with a basic strategy. Is that asking too much? LOL

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