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Ok, so we're agreed that you aren't going to take a stock average sedan through the whole baja course without damaging things and getting stuck. I've never said that any stock 4x4 couldn't make it through, I was calling out the assertion that the course is so easy a camry could do it without...

Yes. Jeep shows their vehicles doing Moab and the Rubicon trail, Ford shows theirs doing Baja. Both are done for marketing purposes, otherwise what would be the point. "Win on Sunday, sell on Monday" and all that. It still serves to give us an idea of the sort of capability we can expect...

Yeah, I'll agree a 5-6k towing capacity would be nice - I've towed friends' broken rally cars home with my Pajero before and having the capability to trailer my Corvette if I needed to would be cool. I'm willing to accept lower towing capacity for better off road though, like how the Ranger...

Yeah, I definitely don't think there was any foul play involved. Accidents happen in racing.

I want it to be clear, I'm very disappointed that the R didn't finish, but there are a couple of data points to temper the disappointment. - The Bronco R was reportedly developed in just six months, from sketch to reveal. That's not a lot of time for testing and redesigning things. - Desert...

Ha, I mean, granted yes. With effort, some willful body damage, and a healthy sprinkle of stupidity, you can get pretty much any car to end up pretty much anywhere. Getting it out again on the other hand...

Man, you really hate the Bronco R, huh? Let me be clear. You said a sedan could drive the whole course. I gave the benefit of the doubt that you were using hyperbole, I guess that wasn't the case. When I say a sedan can't do it, I mean something like this: If you actually spent any time...

Yeah. 'Stock beetles'. This was the winning class 11 car, car 1111: Just a weee bit better approach/departure angle and ground clearance than your average sedan. Beetles in particular are also known for being quite durable off-road with their swing axle suspension. There are certainly large...

Not sure. As Stampede mentioned, it may have been because the stock parts weren't available or suitable, but they wanted to test the production drivetrain with 4x4. Class 2 is a fully unlimited class that seems to be aimed at this sort of special exhibition vehicle (the Bronco R and the Baja...

Voted for high speed and styling. I don't think that'll surprise anyone who's been around here a while ;) I don't care about / do not want the removeable top and doors so didn't vote for that, but I would like a manual transmission. Powertrain selection is important but only in that I would not...

IFS and SFA vehicles are certainly both capable of surviving the Baja. The IFS ones are obviously faster, but I don't think that surprises anyone and we have a whole thread to talk about those pros and cons. Unfortunately the Bronco R's prototype bits didn't hold up this time. We'll see what...

For the 3.5 the oil filter is in a different place, so I don't think it's that. I'm not sure if it could be the 3.0 instead of the 2.7, there aren't as many reference pictures for that engine.

There's been a couple of people who have identified it as the 2.7 from the shots in through the fender wells based on some stampings and the oil filter location I believe.

Just to add to this thought, I will also say that the strong used value for FJ cruisers today indicates to me that there was some potential there if they had continued on to be able to see our current offroad SUV loving market.

Absolutely. It would have taken years of success and incremental improvements for the FJ to be able to match the wrangler and one way or another it didn't get that chance - is anybody expecting that the Bronco to be beating Wrangler sales numbers in its first couple years? That seems very...

Sure thing. Here we go: So we can see that both hit their lowest point in 2009 and then recover strongly. Clearly, yes, the wrangler had less of a dip, and recovered more quickly than the 4Runner. I have two thoughts on that: 1) The higher price point as you mentioned will play a factor...

I see tons of 4Runners up here and the majority of the new ones I see are 4wd or TRD Pro models, and many of those have some light mods - I think the convertible nature of the Wrangler appeals less to people up in the north.

Look at sales figures for the Wrangler. They absolutely see a major dip during the recession. The 4Runner and Wrangler follow almost exactly the same curve. Those are the only two who had the established name to carry them through the bad times, the H3/Xterra/FJ Cruiser were all launched shortly...

I guess I give the Ford V8s too much credit :P If the reason they didn't use the V8 was purely because the V8 wouldn't last a 24hr race at that power level and an ecoboost would...I know which one I'd rather have!

I don't believe for a minute that Ford couldn't make one of their N/A V8s make enough power to be competitive if they had a reason to. GTLM cars only make around 500-550hp with the restrictors, the race GT makes less power than the road car. The 5.5L N/A V8 in the C7.R seemed to do well enough...