Ford Fathom EV Pickup ($28,350 Starting Price) - News & Info

[MilesTeg]

Diesel is a non-starter in the US. The EPA hates diesel with an irrational fury. The ultra-low sulfur mandate doubled the cost of fuel, and all of the crazy emissions gear has put a huge damper on reliability.

There is a reason US Military F-250s come with a factory emissions delete.

It's not irrational. Diesel engines form the bulk of all fine particulate matter (PM2.5) pollution, which is very unhealthy to breath -- at any concentration -- as particulates that small enter directly into your bloodstream and cause direct damage as well as carry toxins that bio-accumulate.

PM2.5 pollution is a primary cause of cardiovascular disease worldwide.

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[Techun]

I don’t work at McDonalds, so the price of a gallon of gas doesn’t effect me like it does you.

You can't both have money and spend it. It's fine if you like throwing your money away at the gas pump but I would rather not.

The idea that an EV is a "throwaway" car while we are driving cars with STRUCTURAL CARDBOARD is pretty funny.

For the record, I don't own an EV and make at least $1/hr more than a McDonald's employee.

 

[Techun]

And they'll drop again, just a fact

Yup. And shoot back up. And drop. Forever

 

[VirginiaHeritage]

If they pull this off well, it could make the under-equipped Slate seem pretty irrelevant.

IF…

 

[AZ_Liberty]

Using that same electricity to make hydrogen (which is the only way we have to produce it at scale) is about 20-40% efficient when you include all those same "full lifecycle" costs.

Don't forget hydrogen embrittlement which destroys equipment. But nobody is seriously considering using electricity to manufacture hydrogen. 95% of Hydrogen is from Steam-Methane Reformation.

 

[TheKim]

I don’t work at McDonalds, so the price of a gallon of gas doesn’t effect me like it does you.

I work at McDonald's, what's the problem here?

 

[Tricky Mike]

I work at McDonald's, what's the problem here?

Sir, this is a Wendy's.

 

[Roger123]

There's still a time/place/opportunity for them. You aren't noticing these $4-5 gas prices?

No, not really. Is the plan to buy a $33,000 vehicle to save $500-800/year on fuel? That assumes a zero price point on electricity and doesn't include the couple of grand to upgrade my electrical service. All this to get me a vehicle that meets 75% of my needs whereas my current power plant meets 100%.

If EV's are taking off globally and Ford is a global company they should focus on bringing those cars to the market that is supporting them. Maybe they could then bring some vehicles here that people say they want, small diesel pick-up's, Everest, etc.

EVs work for some people, and they should by all means buy them, but they don't work for everyone.

 

[Brian_B]

I predict this will go over about as well as the Edsel did.

Ford could have had a home run with the F150 Lightning. At $39,000 when it first released, that turned a lot of heads. Problem was, you couldn't buy the $39,000 version, and the price (not-so) mysteriously doubled by the time the base and lower trim models were available to non-fleet buyers. The same truck at $60,000 just isn't the same truck at all.

Just because the Maverick is doing well doesn't mean an EV look-alike will. If you can't make an Electric F150 work... you can't make Electric work period.

 

[Techun]

No, not really. Is the plan to buy a $33,000 vehicle to save $500-800/year on fuel? That assumes a zero price point on electricity and doesn't include the couple of grand to upgrade my electrical service. All this to get me a vehicle that meets 75% of my needs whereas my current power plant meets 100%.

If EV's are taking off globally and Ford is a global company they should focus on bringing those cars to the market that is supporting them. Maybe they could then bring some vehicles here that people say they want, small diesel pick-up's, Everest, etc.

EVs work for some people, and they should by all means buy them, but they don't work for everyone.

What do you mean "zero price point on electricity"?

Because I'm paying well over $4k a year for gas for my bronco. Plus our other vehicles.

 

[crenca]

Nobody is buying what your selling @Techun , but no doubt you will keep trying...true believers and their evangelism and all that...

You did get me thinking about what I pay for gas yearly for my bronco. 20k miles a year for me, at $4 a gallon is $4500 (assuming $4 average per gallon - I have to run 91 but I also mix an E25 blend using E85). This number is historically too high, and as soon as the 3-2-1 crack spread ( ) comes back to trend normalcy will return.

Now assume I could get that down to $1500 a year with an EV (not really realistic given my electrical market, but let's give electricity the advantage) would I give up the pros of clean burning gasoline for electricity for a $3000 savings a year? No way, and 85% of the population has not, would not, and will not either.

That's why EV's are going to be a niche (about 15% of the market) for the forseeable future.

Unless this vehicle is for other markets, and Ford is just offering it here because no $ downside for them and optics, Ford is miscalculating yet again.

 

[Brian_B]

What do you mean "zero price point on electricity"?


Because I'm paying well over $4k a year for gas for my bronco. Plus our other vehicles.

An exercise because I was curious. I've probably made some bad assumptions in here, but before doing this I had no idea how it would turn out.

I do about 30,000 miles a year on my Bronco. I get about 15 mpg (+/-). Gas where I live (thank you CA) is running about $6.00/gal for 91 (again, +/-, it's on the high side of that right now, but that's a good average)

So... 30,000/15 * $6.00 = $12,000 / yr in gas.

That... sounds about right. I spend about $200-250/wk in gas, give or take.

Now, if I were to run an EV. They have different efficiencies. Just looking at the F150 Lightning again, it appears to be somewhere around 1.5-2.5 miles / kWh. So just for S&G I'll peg this exercise at 2.0 miles / kWh

30,000 / 2.0 = 15,000 kWh

My electric tariff: https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-TOU-D.pdf

Let's just assume I only charge at night, because it would be suicidal to do so during the day. So about $0.345 / kWh

15,000 kWh * 0.345 = $5,175 / yr in electric charges

It really would be cheaper - as long as I only charge at home on off-peak rates. Which, driving almost 600 miles/wk isn't always a possibility.

Now, there is a special EV tariff (overnight charging is closer to $0.24/kWh, which helps tip further into favor of EVs). And yeah, solar is a thing that you can pay for. And public chargers (that are usually more expensive, not less). And I don't need to do 6 oil changes a year on an EV, so that's about $400 or so... and inefficiencies in charging a battery (they are usually only about 90%). But you also have to purchase the EV charger and get it installed, so there's that too.

 

[Techun]

An exercise because I was curious. I've probably made some bad assumptions in here, but before doing this I had no idea how it would turn out.

I do about 30,000 miles a year on my Bronco. I get about 15 mpg (+/-). Gas where I live (thank you CA) is running about $6.00/gal for 91 (again, +/-, it's on the high side of that right now, but that's a good average)

So... 30,000/15 * $6.00 = $12,000 / yr in gas.

That... sounds about right. I spend about $200-250/wk in gas, give or take.

Now, if I were to run an EV. They have different efficiencies. Just looking at the F150 Lightning again, it appears to be somewhere around 1.5-2.5 miles / kWh. So just for S&G I'll peg this exercise at 2.0 miles / kWh

30,000 / 2.0 = 15,000 kWh

My electric tariff: https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-TOU-D.pdf

Let's just assume I only charge at night, because it would be suicidal to do so during the day. So about $0.345 / kWh

15,000 kWh * 0.345 = $5,175 / yr in electric charges

It really would be cheaper - as long as I only charge at home on off-peak rates. Which, driving almost 600 miles/wk isn't always a possibility.

Now, there is a special EV tariff (overnight charging is closer to $0.24/kWh, which helps tip further into favor of EVs). And yeah, solar is a thing that you can pay for. And public chargers (that are usually more expensive, not less). And I don't need to do 6 oil changes a year on an EV, so that's about $400 or so... and inefficiencies in charging a battery (they are usually only about 90%). But you also have to purchase the EV charger and get it installed, so there's that too.

Ty for actually using numbers and not just old man shaking fist at clouds.

Numbers outside of CA (for me) are more like $4.10 and 0.16c/kwh. Fairly similar

 

[Brian_B]

My biggest hangup, really, against EVs though (after clearing up some errors in my previous post)

WIth an EV - you pay the utility company. The rates can (and do) change. But you can't exactly go shopping around for cheaper electricity for your home (I understand some parts of TX can though, so maybe some people can?). And you can't just hand the utility company money and have your EV stop charging if you are trying to maintain a budget - you have to watch it like a hawk, because that meter runs if you use it.

Whereas, for gas. Yes, the price changes. Daily it seems. But I can go down to Costco and get it cheaper, or if I don't like the ScrewYouToo station I can go down the road to Shell or Chevron and pay a bit more. I can hand the cashier $20, and not worry about it accidently topping my tank off for another $50 that I may not have in my pocket.

I'll be honest - that really does irk me. I really don't care for my Utility Provider much, and even though it costs me an arm and a leg more, I'd rather not give them any more money, or control, over me.

Now there are all the other inconveniences as well, like the fact that it takes hours to charge at home, or you pay through the nose for fast charging, or that batteries degrade over time, etc etc. Yeah all that exists... and I'm sure the folks at Big Oil aren't saints either. But I feel like I have some degree of control and choice with gas, whereas I'm at the mercy of a big Utility Monopoly if I'm stuck with an EV.

 

[Roger123]

What do you mean "zero price point on electricity"?

Because I'm paying well over $4k a year for gas for my bronco. Plus our other vehicles.

I'd save 500-800/year on gas but didn't include the cost of electricity in the comparison, therefore it would be much less of a savings.

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