So Ford is basically obliterating dealer allocations, right?

[ZackDanger]

That’s what we’ve been doing the last few days. Almost all are going MIC.

Wait…

FEs are only available with MIC and are MY21 only. If the customer doesn’t agree to change to MIC, and their order isn’t updated in the system, their order can’t/won’t ever be built.

Their options are to change to MIC if they want an FE, or change to another trim to hold out for the Mod/dual or get a soft top.

I hope you mean the ones that don’t want MIC are still converting to something else.

At least that’s what I thought was the understanding.

And confirmed a couple times order does not automatically update to MIC (here’s one thread I found on it quickly):
https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/update-issue-with-my-dealer-need-help.15144/

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[flip]

Wait…

FEs are only available with MIC and are MY21 only. If the customer doesn’t agree to change to MIC, and their order isn’t updated in the system, their order can’t/won’t ever be built.

Their options are to change to MIC if they want an FE, or change to another trim to hold out for the Mod/dual or get a soft top.

I hope you mean the ones that don’t want MIC are still converting to something else.

At least that’s what I thought was the understanding.

I meant everyone else with mod top that was already 99’d. 3/4 of my orders were ‘22 by choice because of the top prior to the announcement Fiday.

 

[ZackDanger]

I meant everyone else with mod top that was already 99’d. 3/4 of my orders were ‘22 by choice because of the top prior to the announcement Fiday.

 

[flip]

So the issue now is since some of the 99 folks, partially due to mod top now switching to MIC, unless wanting ‘22, had time stamps well within my original allocation window. Unless they stay 99 by choice, might have buildable units that could potentially get pulled, especially if they roll the dice with soft top due to prep package offering. What a mess!

 

[da_jokker]

Basically Ford should just pull the Mod top like they did the capable bumper. Don't even offer it. MIC top only and adjust the prices as such for FE and WT (which they did)

If a person doesn't want an FE with a MIC they have that choice. Sort of like those folks holding out for the 2.7 manual... It is a non-existing build. No point in holding out.

 

[da_jokker]

I’m pretty sure FEs don’t count towards a dealers allocation.

Yes, they count. Every single Bronco that is sent to a dealer counts towards their allocations, stock, reservations..all of them.

There are only two exceptions, VIP orders (which are not the same as priority) and the mannequins.

Someone will correct me I'm sure if I'm wrong.

 

[MadMan4BamaNATL]

My apologies for the mixup, but thanks for taking the time to reply anyways.

I hope it happens that way. The only thing I would take issue with is that Ford would start with the earliest timestamp and if they have the parts, then the build gets scheduled.

I think what’s going on is the Ford computer is looking at what parts they have and building as many Broncos as they can with the parts they have available….practically regardless of timestamps. I have a first 10 minute reservation and a #1 allocation, but no VIN.

This is hard to explain, but say I am the next reservation in line….2dr, MIC, Lux, Sas, 2.7. Instead of using all those constrained items to make my one Bronco, I believe Ford looks at a Stock BB and takes the Sas pkg, then another BL stock but takes the Lux, then a Stock OB needs a MIC top, and a BD needs a 2.7….they were able to build 4 Broncos, all with much later timestamps instead of my one commodity-hogging Bronco. The results is 4 happy customers, 4 happy dealers and the guy with the earliest timestamp never knows the difference.

I say this because I’ve watched hundreds of builds with all the parts my build needed spread over all those builds. If they started at the timestamp, they could easily have scheduled my build, or an earlier timestamp build but that would have impacted several others.

Ford thinks I’m being greedy and uncompromising and allowed a computer algorithm to deviate from their original rules in order to maximize their profits. Business decisions were made.

Nothing I can do about it but wait or cancel at this point, so I wait, and I suppose I’ll wait for as long as it takes.

Right, but what else is Ford to do? We're complaining and all are throwing tantrums, but where are the alternative solutions?

@ZackDanger splashed some much needed cold water on our faces and he is right. No one wants to see a dealer sell a Bronco to joe blow, but he'll be getting it with that saggy soft top.

My 2Dr is basically overloaded, so I know Ford wants me to buy it. I also know it's not like they'll push me aside out of spite and sell my build to someone else. If they're able to build it, they want me to buy it, same for yours and all of our builds if for no other reason than to get us all to shut up dragging them all over the internets.

But, I WILL keep dragging Ford across these internets, because just like when you have a low performing employee, you increase pressure, more deadlines, more deliverables, etc. Ford doesn't get to "take it easy" in this, then sell these order switchers a full priced hard top later.

I know there are lawyers licking their paws at this mess. Not sure anything could happen, but a lot of this looks like misrepresentation which could sort of be spent into fraud, but that's a stretch with a ton of built in excuses to get out from under.

That email was honest, but foolish, but it was never going to make anyone happy. Well, with exception of Ford's customers, the dealerships which now get stock Broncos to sell for a huge profit as a penitence for tolerating all of the Bronco crap with no sells for over a year.

 

[Dads_bronze_bronco]

First, I’m not with a dealership or Ford…. I think you may have me confused with another forum member who’s username rhymes with “ZackDanger”

Second, I don’t think there’s any weird craziness going on here. The scheduling hasn’t changed, the only thing that has changed is that Ford shared their plan for when a dealership doesn’t have enough buildable retail orders for a particular scheduling block.

Here’s the scenario:

Dealership A is getting 5 Broncos this month. Ford starts at the earliest timestamp and checks to see if they have the parts, if it does then the build gets scheduled, if not they move to the next earliest. They do this until they can find 5 retail orders.

The next month they do the same thing for the next 5, starting at the earliest and moving their way through again.

Now the third month, turns out that of allllll the retail orders placed, they only have the parts for three of them…

…under the system that Ford just announced, the remaining 2 allocated Broncos would be built as dealer stock with whatever parts they do have.

The dealership still gets their 5 Broncos that month to sell, and everyone who was next in line with a buildable order still gets their bronco, and anyone who didn’t have a buildable order still gets skipped.

In a way, no one is actually being pushed back or denied a build, since they are still building retail orders first when they can… if you get skipped because they don’t have the parts, and are back in the running next month, the eventual outcome is exactly the same whether you were skipped for another retail order or a stock order.

Agree with your thinking except: each time this happens 2 more (or however many dealer sticks get built) get pushed to 2022.

Just because those parts weren’t available in August, doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be in September or October.

So the net effect is the dealer still gets the same number of Broncos to sell in August, but reservations converted to orders get less in 2021.

Note: while it sucks that they have to do this, we do all have a vested interest in Bronco production getting up to full speed. In this world of JIT, the only way the supply chain stabilizes is production stabilizing providing the economic incentive downstream to get up to speed.

 

[Compta38]

Right and so I hope folks who will use the off-road capabilities jump the line in front of you. Because I look forward to reports about their off-road adventures in the Bronco using the functionalities, and a Lexus or minivan will still get you where you want to go. Win/win.

Well considering people are taking delivery now I'm sure you will find the reviews you seek. I'm also not too sure why others should care so much about what I do with a vehicle I'm paying for either. It's basically none of your damn business.

 

[VictoryLights]

Nobody knows at this point. Ford is just trying to get ahead of this by making it clear that they don’t know either how this is all going to play out. 6 months from now maybe the commodities will be all sorted out, hard top and Sasquatch Broncos are just flying out the door, etc. OR the supply chain cluster-you-know-what could get 10x worse and Ford can’t even build the big bend dealer units due to a glass shortage or who knows what. If you knew which is the case you could make an absolute fortune in the commodities market and pay for your Bronco 10x over. All that really matters is it sounds like MAP has their stuff together and is putting as many Broncos out the door as possible.

This is all well and good, but Ford did this to themselves by continuing to take reservations and converting orders when they knew this was coming. Had they taken a smaller number of reservations, built those, and then started stocking dealers nobody would have a gripe. You can actually still make a reservation and Ford will take your $100!

 

[Lashedup]

There are a ton of moving pieces behind the scenes that none of us have all the details on.

One example is allocations. Over the years one of the unofficial ways a manufacturer can leverage a dealer is via allocations. I say unofficially because there is a lot of legal red tape “protecting” dealers and it varies by state laws. So in our example, let’s say Ford sets up the reservation system and a few savvy dealers figure out that if they come to forums like this one offering $2k below invoice, they can get a ton of reservations with their dealer name on it. Presumably part of the reason they did this is in hopes that they end up with more allocations, since their dealership got a ton of reservations. Other dealers saw this happen and complained/threatened Ford via Dealer Council members or principals complaining to higher ups they know. At this point Ford changes the public messaging to dealers regarding allocations to appease those dealers that complained or threaten legal action. However Ford still sees the reservation system and knows what customers want for nearly the next two years. so long as a dealer stays quiet about how many monthly allocations they get, know one knows how many allocations a given dealer will get. This is all hypothetical as no manufacturer I’ve worked for tried a reservation system like this because dealers complained too much.

In the end it will be interesting to see how this plays out. Let’s hope hardtop production and the rest of the parts constraints get sorted out sooner than later.

 

[ZackDanger]

Agree with your thinking except: each time this happens 2 more (or however many dealer sticks get built) get pushed to 2022.

Just because those parts weren’t available in August, doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be in September or October.

So the net effect is the dealer still gets the same number of Broncos to sell in August, but reservations converted to orders get less in 2021.

Note: while it sucks that they have to do this, we do all have a vested interest in Bronco production getting up to full speed. In this world of JIT, the only way the supply chain stabilizes is production stabilizing providing the economic incentive downstream to get up to speed.

“Getting pushed to MY22” doesn’t mean what a lot of people act like it means. It’s not like all of a sudden you’re waiting another 52 weeks for your bronco.

“Getting pushed to MY22” could mean something as simple as instead of being built in the last week of Nov, your bronco gets built in the second week of December… it could even arrive on the same transport either way.

The only way that getting pushed to MY22 means worse is if you’re an otherwise late build and a whole bunch of early 99s get inserted before you at the MY22 change over…

But really, even if there weren’t a MY change over and all those 99s were in the running already, you’d be the in the exact same position.

…and from what I’m hearing the significant majority of 99s that were holding out for Mod tops right now are converting back to MIC tops… so they’re back in the running…

…and if they can’t build your bronco because of parts, it doesn’t matter whether they build a stock order or a retail order instead…

So my original point stands. You’re going to get your Bronco at the same time you were always going to, whether you get “pushed” to MY22 or not, and whether it was by an earlier reservation holder, a retail order that can be built, or a stock order that can be built.

The only thing that has changed through all of this is we’re seeing more and more how the sausage is being made.

 

[Dads_bronze_bronco]

“Getting pushed to MY22” doesn’t mean what a lot of people act like it means. It’s not like all of a sudden you’re waiting another 52 weeks for your bronco.

“Getting pushed to MY22” could mean something as simple as instead of being built in the last week of Nov, your bronco gets built in the second week of December… it could even arrive on the same transport either way.

The only way that getting pushed to MY22 means worse is if you’re an otherwise late build and a whole bunch of early 99s get inserted before you at the MY22 change over…

But really, even if there weren’t a MY change over and all those 99s were in the running already, you’d be the in the exact same position.

…and from what I’m hearing the significant majority of 99s that were holding out for Mod tops right now are converting back to MIC tops… so they’re back in the running…

…and if they can’t build your bronco because of parts, it doesn’t matter whether they build a stock order or a retail order instead…

So my original point stands. You’re going to get your Bronco at the same time you were always going to, whether you get “pushed” to MY22 or not, and whether it was by an earlier reservation holder, a retail order that could be built, or a stock order that could be built.

We’ll see how this pans out - it would be nice to see a significant couple Thursdays of people getting VINs.

Another factor: that dealer stock May reduce converted orders as some people will buy what’s available and cancel their order.

 

[flip]

Allocation was always about Ford’s early projection on first year build capacity divided amongst the dealer body by a % of reservation conversion to orders. That was based on their assumpion those first 60K had a certain build mix and suppliers capability. Probably from agreements negotiated well before order bank opened. Rona, Webasto and the rest is history. If they missed the take rate on certain options, which probably was the case, this is the result. The info we need now is what retail orders can each dealer still get built as a ‘21. I would rather see customers get their orders as opposed to stock. Bottom line is the line has started and they are going to build as much as possible based on the parts they have to do so. Long term this will work itself out. I know it’s of no comfort but @ZackDanger is pretty much spot on with his assesment.

 

[jaspercasidino]

“Getting pushed to MY22” doesn’t mean what a lot of people act like it means. It’s not like all of a sudden you’re waiting another 52 weeks for your bronco.

“Getting pushed to MY22” could mean something as simple as instead of being built in the last week of Nov, your bronco gets built in the second week of December… it could even arrive on the same transport either way.

The only way that getting pushed to MY22 means worse is if you’re an otherwise late build and a whole bunch of early 99s get inserted before you at the MY22 change over…

But really, even if there weren’t a MY change over and all those 99s were in the running already, you’d be the in the exact same position.

…and from what I’m hearing the significant majority of 99s that were holding out for Mod tops right now are converting back to MIC tops… so they’re back in the running…

…and if they can’t build your bronco because of parts, it doesn’t matter whether they build a stock order or a retail order instead…

So my original point stands. You’re going to get your Bronco at the same time you were always going to, whether you get “pushed” to MY22 or not, and whether it was by an earlier reservation holder, a retail order that can be built, or a stock order that can be built.

The only thing that has changed through all of this is we’re seeing more and more how the sausage is being made.

Given the recent mod top announcement, this could be one of the factors in not getting the May build/delivery estimate. Ford must have had some idea that mod tops weren’t going to be available or MY22 as previously indicated, but they have no idea how many people will switch to hardtop w/kit, MIC, wait or cancel.

Selfishly, I was pretty happy when mod tops were moved to MY22. Less builds to compete with before I get my Bronco. Now, I’ll get my Bronco somewhat later (no idea what the difference is or will be) and people who get soft top or MIC top, get a build that doesn’t match what they wanted. Unfortunate situation all around.

I do know that hardtop builds won’t be available as dealer stock for a while as long as hard tops are the major constraint to building customer orders.

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