First new Ford...Probably the last Ford

[CV428]

Overall, I like my Bronco, but it isn't perfect. I feel like Ford really missed the mark in a few areas (windows rattle, soft quarter windows pop out on the highway, auto-start-stop is garbage, infotainment is clunky and annoying, doors never properly aligned, hood skin separated from the substructure due to flex on the highway within the first 100 miles...). But, overall it's a decent vehicle when compared to the other options out there.

I think I'm done with "new" vehicles on the whole, though- not specifically due to the Bronco, or Ford, but because I strongly dislike and disagree with the direction all OEMs are going.

• "Dumb politician pulling figures out of their anus" factor affecting EPA/CAFE/etc (unnecessary garbage-tech adding cost, hurting reliability, doing nothing measurably positive)
• "We ignore what our fanbase wants, and do the opposite" factor that all OEMs seem to be doing these days
• Everything is designed cheap but costs more than it should
• Consumers absorbing the overhead costs of thousands of unnecessary positions along supply chains and manufacturing (hey, someone has to pay for corporate bloat! The associate department of redundancy department associates cost a lot of money!)
• "Your infotainment system needs an update. We didn't program it right to begin with, we know it's a clunky pile of crap, but don't worry, this update will make it worse and we'll make sure it happens at the worst time possible!"
• "Pushing out the next half-engineered pile of junk by an arbitrary date some useless executive picked is FAR more important to use than addressing the issues that were exposed on the previous model(s)"

I could go on and on. I have 20+ years in engineering and I don't see anything actually getting better anywhere. It just gets worse.

I'll just buy older vehicles with solid frames, resto-mod them, and enjoy the simplicity. My vehicles should have precisely ONE computer, for EFI. Electronics should be absolutely minimal.

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[GoHawks63]

I'm definitely beginning to see the crowd here that align with Ford and will brush off any and all complaints.

Also, I lived in a heavy republican/conservative area for a while and now live in Seattle which is solid liberal/democrat. Both sides drive me absolutely crazy at times with their 100% certainty on topics and their ability to hear an opposing opinion. Like you I tend to ride the middle and take on topics individually. I had nothing against Ford to start, but seeing these issues has made me think twice about purchasing them in the future...I dont think thats an unfair or extreme statement.

Not an unfair statment at all. I tend to ride the center on politics as well and have voted both sides in the past.

As for Ford, I had a terrible ownership with a 2010 F150 and was leery about buying another Ford product.

Yes, I do have a Mustang also, but that only has 17K miles and hasn't had time to really have issues.

Nonetheless, I did buy a Bronco, but I also made sure to buy an extended warranty.

 

[Pinto73]

It’s a Lego car that you can drive. just have to accept it, if Toyota would have had a car that I could remove the tops and doors to enjoy the outdoors I would have bought it When compared to the jeep I just like the bronco better.

 

[Area51BS]

Overall, I like my Bronco, but it isn't perfect. I feel like Ford really missed the mark in a few areas (windows rattle, soft quarter windows pop out on the highway, auto-start-stop is garbage, infotainment is clunky and annoying, doors never properly aligned, hood skin separated from the substructure due to flex on the highway within the first 100 miles...). But, overall it's a decent vehicle when compared to the other options out there.

I think I'm done with "new" vehicles on the whole, though- not specifically due to the Bronco, or Ford, but because I strongly dislike and disagree with the direction all OEMs are going.

• "Dumb politician pulling figures out of their anus" factor affecting EPA/CAFE/etc (unnecessary garbage-tech adding cost, hurting reliability, doing nothing measurably positive)
• "We ignore what our fanbase wants, and do the opposite" factor that all OEMs seem to be doing these days
• Everything is designed cheap but costs more than it should
• Consumers absorbing the overhead costs of thousands of unnecessary positions along supply chains and manufacturing (hey, someone has to pay for corporate bloat! The associate department of redundancy department associates cost a lot of money!)
• "Your infotainment system needs an update. We didn't program it right to begin with, we know it's a clunky pile of crap, but don't worry, this update will make it worse and we'll make sure it happens at the worst time possible!"
• "Pushing out the next half-engineered pile of junk by an arbitrary date some useless executive picked is FAR more important to use than addressing the issues that were exposed on the previous model(s)"

I could go on and on. I have 20+ years in engineering and I don't see anything actually getting better anywhere. It just gets worse.

I'll just buy older vehicles with solid frames, resto-mod them, and enjoy the simplicity. My vehicles should have precisely ONE computer, for EFI. Electronics should be absolutely minimal.

3 years. Never had a window pop out.

 

[CV428]

3 years. Never had a window pop out.

Understandable. But, just because the issue hasn't happened to you doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. There are many threads on the window pop-out topic. Tolerances, incoming materials, set up differences, quality checks, differences in operators/inspectors, etc all can lead to a short term issue that doesn't affect all vehicles.

A certain unnamed manufacturer had to disassemble and scrap a bizarre number of partially-built vehicles years ago because one operator was using an unapproved "mold release" that contaminated class-A surfaces. It didn't affect all within the mfg date or VIN range because this operator didn't work every shift. - this is just one example but it's very common.

My guess on the window issue is that whatever gauge/fixture they used for soft top framework got bumped, misaligned, or the operator doing the assembly had one too many coffees (or not enough) that day. You'd be shocked at how easily a disgruntled or constipated operator can muck things up. XD

 

[pakrat]

My 21 has none of these issues, going strong. Maybe you got a Friday before the long weekend build.

Mine either. Paint is darn near perfect as far as I can tell, gaps are all perfectly aligned from hood to the tailgate, doors and fenders. Zero issues! My only point of agreement would be the plastic quality, but even then a buddy just got a new Mercedes AMG and the plastic areas like inside the rear tailgate scratch every bit as easily as the Bronco.

 

[GoHawks63]

It’s a Lego car that you can drive. just have to accept it, if Toyota would have had a car that I could remove the tops and doors to enjoy the outdoors I would have bought it When compared to the jeep I just like the bronco better.

I was seriously considering the new 4Runner, but I didn't want a hybrid, and I didn't want a first-year design. Even though it's a Toyota, lately they have been showing they also are mere mortals.

 

[Imaginary Friend]

I could go on and on. I have 20+ years in engineering and I don't see anything actually getting better anywhere. It just gets worse.

30+ here, and you are absolutely right.

My biggest beef with the auto industry currently is the unnecessary electrical complexity. And stupid "infotainment" screens - I can't wait until NHTSA deems them the terrible distractions that they really are and bans them altogether.

 

[dpAtlanta]

I think at $60k you're doing it wrong. A Bronco is not that kind of vehicle ... thank god. (Although Ford will gladly take the money.) The last thing I want to see is Bronco gentrification.

I humbly disagree... if I couldn't afford to pay cash for all of my vehicles, then I would whole-heartedly agree with you.
I wanted a 2-door Hot-Pepper Red Badlands with the V6, SAS & Lux packages. I got the vehicle new for $3000 below sticker.
One does have to wonder if a $65,000 Bronco is "gentrification", what is the Braptor...??????
I like your thinking though..... it's kind of a slap in the face to the 1st gen Broncos original intent.

 

[B22-2023]

Somehow folks don’t “hear” this and just think you’re ranting about Ford; they are religious about ‘Ford’ so that’s what’s going to happen. Same with folks on “Camaro5” about Chevy. Etc etc.

Bottom line is that we live in a polarized world. “Gotta pick a side.” Please allow grace and room for critical thinking and expression, folks.

You and OP/others are not wrong to bristle a little at the tribalism, and yes there are many worthwhile points of view. But the original posting struck some as a bit breathless in its deep dive into generally well discussed flaws, and this forum has a built-in bias itself - ie unapologetically a pro-Bronco culture and hard on those late to the party for whatever reason sometimes. Probably group battle fatigue starting with the “got my Bronco 893 days after order” days.

Reminder that this same “fanboy” (someone said) culture is made up of some of the most collaborative and problem solving users out there, as OP will find out when sharing his journey with the new rig. Despite the digs occasionally thrown around, and we all get them.

I look at BN and similar sites sometimes trying to solve Bronco issues and it’s a usually a joke - not to mention a complete shame fest like nothing on this forum - or reminds me of those hillbillies in Slingblade fixing the lawnmower, on a good day. We have it good here!

 

[Dral97]

Sorry about your bad experiences. I have a FE and I'm been pretty happy with it.

Though, I'm used to driving around old jeeps with leaf suspensions, top leaks, and crappy sound systems; so my bar is pretty low.

It would be nicer to have some higher end finishes on the inside, but if that would have jacked up the price even more, I'm personally fine with what I got.

 

[CV428]

30+ here, and you are absolutely right.

My biggest beef with the auto industry currently is the unnecessary electrical complexity. And stupid "infotainment" screens - I can't wait until NHTSA deems them the terrible distractions that they really are and bans them altogether.

I couldn't agree more!

We have tools at our disposal that should be increasing efficiency and lowering costs. Instead, they are used to overly complicate everything.

I remember in the AutoCAD 2002 days when it took 30+ minutes to save a .dwg on a Pentium II processor (I remember 386/486 days too, but not in CAD), and I was drooling at the thought of a 1ghz processor. "It'll be so much faster to save drawings!" Here we are 23 years later, we have multi-core processors and most CAD platforms can't utilize more than one processor. CAD Vault pulls sometimes take me 5-10 hours. This isn't the future I wanted haha.

Regarding infotainment... The focus has been on the wrong aspects- it's a marketing factor, not a required function of a vehicle. But, try being the only one without an annoying screen and see how fast sales figures tank. Consumers do drive the tech-bloat. But, imagine how much less a new vehicle would cost if it didn't have those expensive screens, or to pay for the logistics of buffet-style JIT. I've designed and programmed those sprawling PTL systems- they aren't cheap. The next logical step, now that sales figures are struggling for new cars in general, is to limit those choices and reduce the associated cost. Shrinkflation includes a limitation of choices.

 

[CV428]

Sorry about your bad experiences. I have a FE and I'm been pretty happy with it.

Though, I'm used to driving around old jeeps with leaf suspensions, top leaks, and crappy sound systems; so my bar is pretty low.

I wouldn't say your bar is low. You just haven't been tainted by unnecessary creature comforts that create unreliable and overly expensive vehicles.

 

[rgraphic]

You and OP/others are not wrong to bristle a little at the tribalism, and yes there are many points of worthwhile points of view. But the original posting struck some as a bit breathless in its deep dive into generally well discussed flaws, and this forum has a built-in bias itself - ie unapologetically a pro-Bronco culture and hard on those late to the party for whatever reason sometimes. Probably group battle fatigue starting with the “got my Bronco 893 days after order” days.

Reminder that this same “fanboy” (someone said) culture is made up of one of the most collaborative and problem solving users out there, as OP will find out when sharing his journey with the new rig. Despite the digs occasionally thrown around, and we all get them.

I look at BN and similar sites sometimes trying to solve Bronco issues and it’s a usually a joke - not to mention a complete shame fest like nothing on this forum - or reminds me of those hillbillies in Slingblade fixing the lawnmower, on a good day. We have it good here!

This all actually reminds me a bit of a concert I went to recently. The guy next to me mentioned the band didn't sound quite as strong this show and that the last time they were in town, it was better. The woman in front of him overheard the comment and turned around to berate him. Who is he to say they weren't as good this time. To her they could do no wrong and he just didn't understand the band.

additionally I guess I fail to understand the argument of "its an off-road vehicle designed for fun driving, Why would would you expect the door to close properly or for panels to align. Go get a luxury vehicle if you want those things"

Also the crowd of "Love it or get out" I like to think are just having fun but who knows. There are some really good responses that go deeper than vehicle qc that I appreciate, even if I dont agree with them entirely.

 

[CrystalRedTintCoat]

You and OP/others are not wrong to bristle a little at the tribalism, and yes there are many points of worthwhile points of view. But the original posting struck some as a bit breathless in its deep dive into generally well discussed flaws, and this forum has a built-in bias itself - ie unapologetically a pro-Bronco culture and hard on those late to the party for whatever reason sometimes. Probably group battle fatigue starting with the “got my Bronco 893 days after order” days.

Reminder that this same “fanboy” (someone said) culture is made up of one of the most collaborative and problem solving users out there, as OP will find out when sharing his journey with the new rig. Despite the digs occasionally thrown around, and we all get them.

I look at BN and similar sites sometimes trying to solve Bronco issues and it’s a usually a joke - not to mention a complete shame fest like nothing on this forum - or reminds me of those hillbillies in Slingblade fixing the lawnmower, on a good day. We have it good here!

Yeah, I get it. Thicken the skin perhaps. Heck I spend most of my time in hockey locker rooms. Brutal in there. If you’re not being jabbed, there’s a problem. Nonetheless, the point I was tryin to make is the OP’s rig seems to be OFF tolerance on the left side. To my mind THAT was the elephant in the room. And we ought to help him solve that problem rather than just say “Ford is great. This is an off-road vehicle.”

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