2025 Broncos... 2-door going extinct?

[adam1991]

I remember being at a gathering at a friend's a while back, where a young mom was bragging about her then-new 4th-gen Nissan Pathfinder, "I'm ready to go off-roading now!" I just chuckled to myself about her enjoying her new minivan.

Fact.

Look, I love minivans. I still miss the one my wife gave up to get the Bronco. They are, hands down, the most useful enclosed vehicle for family transportation of people and things. Low floor, high ceiling, flexible seating (for a REAL minivan, not an SUV-wannabe like the new Sienna). We've hauled 94 inch long extra deep couches in a Honda Odyssey. They're amazing.

But to deny their usefulness because of some fashion statement, some effort to be accepted at the cool kids lunch table, is insane. To trade off a minivan for a vehicle with a higher floor/lower ceiling and less flexible seating, and worse gas mileage, while performing (and failing) the same family duties that are better handled by a minivan, all so you can declare that "well, I don't drive a minivan therefore I'm cool!"--that's insane. You're still a parent with parent duties. The vehicle doesn't change that one bit.

Yes. All those "SUVs" at the school and at the mall, those are just mom-mobiles with worse features for the task.

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[adam1991]

it is 100% definitely less expensive to produce the 2-door. The vehicle has less parts, brackets, fasteners, takes less paint to cover it, as well as less material. Business 101 in automotive engineering.

One would think, but I'm not in the auto manufacturing business. But I do know that there are various levels to the balance sheet, and "profitability" and "cheaper to produce" are what various managers and VPs and C-level people can make the numbers say. That's not just for auto manufacturing, that's for all big business.

All I mean was, I can see a world where--in the big picture--it's costlier to keep manufacturing the 2 doors than to just make everything a 4 door. And yes, some of those factors are pure cost of materials that would say it isn't more expensive. But I don't know exactly what the rest of the picture is.

And every day we see car execs making silly decisions, so there's that.

 

[userdude]

You mean things like tinted windows, full under body bash plates, rock rails, metal bumpers, weather resistant seats, and washout floors.

That completely ignores the little comfort items like a heated steering wheel, heated seats, and dual zone AC.

I understand the Bronco purist who wants the least electronics possible, but things like the GOAT modes are built into all the Broncos. You actually can't get away from the electronics that are potentially going to stop the fun. All of the other stuff in the mid and lux packages are unlikely to take out the Bronco on the trail.

Of course, you don't have to worry about the sway bar disconnect failing in a Base Sasquatch, but that's perhaps the only significant difference. You get an awful lot for what essentially is less than $100 difference between monthly payments on the two vehicles.

I mean it was a joke. As in, you want less (fewer doors, manual, uh "base"), ya gotta pay more. This has been a theme on this thread... But you be you!

 

[65CarryAll]

"Maunfactures build what sells"

Of course there is truth in this. But when manufacture production decisions render 2 doors & manual trans vehicles scarce or unavailable, some of "what sells" is actually forced on buyers by manufactures.

Dad goes to the local dealer for a new _______ (fill in the blank) He might want a 2 door whatever, but guess what? There aren't any!

 

[tock13]

Ummm, Many of Us Boomers do not/did not hate manuals, but driving one is a lost art because it's not a useful art any more, Modern Automatics are better at shifting, and get better gas mileage.

The only thing the Manual does better is engage the driver in driving, and there aren't many of us left that value that.

I will mourn the end of the manual transmission in the end, but I recognize that it's past it's age of usefulness.

I mean really, do you want a manual 'carburetor adjustment' and a 'spark lever'? They helped the driver stay engaged in what they were doing!

I’ve driven manuals for 45 years. Did my time in CJs, FJs and Toyota pickups, I still have one of those with a manual. You can absolutely be engaged in the driving of a vehicle that is not a manual. Maybe because I’m old as dirt I can still get wrapped up in the experience of driving even with an auto in my bronco. I test drove a manual and it was seriously nice, but I’m over the need to tell the vehicle what gear I want. Absolutely love Ford makes a manual available for those wanting the experience. I just think the bronco totally has the “in the moment” engagement regardless of the transmission.

Of course….this all coming from an out of touch boomer.

 

[adam1991]

But when manufacture production decisions render 2 doors & manual trans vehicles scarce or unavailable, some of "what sells" is actually forced on buyers by manufactures.

Dad goes to the local dealer for a new _______ (fill in the blank) He might want a 2 door whatever, but guess what? There aren't any!

like I said, this has been going on in the auto market for 25 years. Every Karen mom wants her white SUV so she can sit smugly at the cool mom's lunch table and be "one of them"--which means I can't go out and buy what I want, for example, because the automakers are tripping over themselves to make what the Karen moms say they want.

In reality, the Karen moms would take whatever is shoved down their throats--as long as every other Karen mom is having the same experience.

 

[huey]

Hopefully Ford can keep the 2door crew happy, but if 2 door sales are too low it would not take long for the axe to fall. Me......I love my 4 door and prefer it over the 2 door, but again hopefully the 2 door crew can remain happy thoughout the life cycle of the 6g bronco and beyond

 

[11811]

Just picked up the one I ordered today. Build week Nov 17th Probably one of the last 2 door Black Diamonds to roll off the assembly line.

 

[huey]

Well... yes... unless you factor in economies of scale.

There may be a time when there is a choice between cutting 2-door from the lineup altogether or simply charging more for the 2-door for the enthusiasts that really want it. We're already seeing this shift today: the 2-door Base is the same price as the 4-Door Base for 2025.

Which is why I'm bringing up the question.

Yes the 2 door has less material so I understand why some think it's cheaper to build. However the economy of scale when buying the distinct parts that make the difference between 2 & 4 doors is massive. As a tier 1 supplier to all OEM's, there is a nonstop effort to reduce the complexity and reduce the number of parts or assemblies to complete the build.

One of the overlooked costs is the cost to maintain a system. There are plenty of quality and assembly systems that need to be maintained during production, you start eliminanting production complexity the cost goes down. Even if you already have all the tooling, materials costs in line, removing systems is a massive cost save.

When you consider all costs I fully expect Ford's cost to build a 25 MY 4 door is cheaper than a 2 door.

it is 100% definitely less expensive to produce the 2-door. The vehicle has less parts, brackets, fasteners, takes less paint to cover it, as well as less material. Business 101 in automotive engineering.

The question comes down to "less/more profitable". sales volumes drive this equation, since the unique tooling for the various, un-common parts with the 4-door need to be paid for with volume.

But..... the actual "cost to produce", I would say the 2-door is less costly.

yes - there are less parts, the frame is shorter, the top is shorter etc. But those distinct parts are more expensive than their 4 door counterparts. Consider buying all parts that are different between 2 & 4 door and the volume is 85,000 4 door pieces and 15,000 2 door pieces what is going to have the better piece price? Those parts are built in a batch to save money. Manufacturing likes to build in large lots with few changeovers. If they build in lots and 2 door parts sit around, someone is paying for that storage. Now multiply that for every different part between 2 & 4 door and the "it's cheaper cuz it's smaller" argument is smoke

 

[BDLNDZ]

like I said, this has been going on in the auto market for 25 years. Every Karen mom wants her white SUV so she can sit smugly at the cool mom's lunch table and be "one of them"--which means I can't go out and buy what I want, for example, because the automakers are tripping over themselves to make what the Karen moms say they want.

In reality, the Karen moms would take whatever is shoved down their throats--as long as every other Karen mom is having the same experience.

So, using your logic I'm guessing what they really want are F-Series Fords.

 

[adam1991]

So, using your logic I'm guessing what they really want are F-Series Fords.

no, what they really want is never to stand out from the crowd by doing anything even remotely different than what everyone else is doing.

If that means the Karens in their neighborhood are all driving F-series Fords, then so be it.

 

[Rumbloki]

If you want a 2-door, there are hundreds to choose from. If they have 4-doors on the lot, they are usually soft tops or a Raptor. I love the 2-door look, but I’m driving a 4-dr Heritage. If demand keeps dropping, don’t be surprised that the 2-door is discontinued in the future.

Autotrader has 37718 new Broncos nationwide. 5657 are 2dr.
2dr selection in Central Texas is very limited.

 

[BDLNDZ]

no, what they really want is never to stand out from the crowd by doing anything even remotely different than what everyone else is doing.

If that means the Karens in their neighborhood are all driving F-series Fords, then so be it.

I was actually responding to this:
"because the automakers are tripping over themselves to make what the Karen moms say they want."

Why all the hate on Karens?

 

[timhood]

Unlike the spacious Bronco, the Wrangler is narrow and cramped inside.
Hence 2-door Broncos are far more popular than the 2-door Wrangler. They really aren't comparable.

Was going to say this. If I had bought a Jeep, I could only have gotten the 4-door. The back seat of the Wrangler 2-door is tight. My 2-door Bronco has as much room in the back seat as the Wrangler 4-door. Would I appreciate 6 more inches of cargo room? Yes, if I could get it without it ruining the great looks. We've done at least a dozen multi-day road trips with 2, 3, and 4 people and have made it work every time.

 

[2door]

There were a few cool minivans ...

I would add the Jeep FC to your list.

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