Kick Panel Options - B&O

[stut1313]

So I have read a A LOT of threads on here about speaker upgrades and I haven't seen or I missed this question/answer? What frequencies are actually sent to the kick panels? I see lots of discussion about whether an upgrade here is necessary or worth it. People postulating that it's a complete waste of money to put a 2/3 way speaker in that location, etc. I have also seen that the Memphis Audio MOJO has been a godsend. But I am wondering if the MOJO really only adds because it's sensitivity (1000db) as opposed to any magic about the frequency response. That being said, what would be the downside of installing a coaxial speaker, like the CV V465, with a sensitivity of 94 db in that location? It would seem like to me that it's going to reproduce all of the frequencies the MOJO would and if the frequencies are limited by the system, why would that matter as long as the chosen speaker reproduces those frequencies?

Finally, I may have a complete misunderstanding of the sound dynamics involved so please feel free to correct that lack of information.

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[Brian_B]

B&O is very different from standard 6 speaker for the kicks - they get their own channel whereas in the 6 speaker they are wired in parallel with the dashes.

i ~think~ the kicks are driven from the stock head unit (ACM) on the B&O (and the dash driven from the DSP) - but I might have that backwards. *edit* -- see post #14 below for correction

whichever is driven from the ACM you have some control over (via Forscan)

that said - nothing wrong with a coax in general - it’s a bit of a compromise between a standard single driver and a composite system with an external crossover

 

[Migo]

I have used both a set of Kicker Co-axial and Hertz MP Pro 165.3 in the kick panels. Without a good DSP, the Kicker Co-axial sounded good and certainly added overall volume. However, with a DSP where I could tune the front soundstage, the midbass speakers (Hertz MP Pro) in the kickpanels are FANTASTIC. I am not sure how they would sound without the ability to tune, but if you are going that route, midbass is where it is at.

 

[stut1313]

I have used both a set of Kicker Co-axial and Hertz MP Pro 165.3 in the kick panels. Without a good DSP, the Kicker Co-axial sounded good and certainly added overall volume. However, with a DSP where I could tune the front soundstage, the midbass speakers (Hertz MP Pro) in the kickpanels are FANTASTIC. I am not sure how they would sound without the ability to tune, but if you are going that route, midbass is where it is at.

Did you make any other changes other than DSP? Did you use the DSP with the Kicker before swapping? How much does the difference in sensitivity between the 2 account for your results?

 

[Migo]

I did make a ton of other changes (Amp, DSP, all new speakers, sound deadening). But just comparing speaker to speaker, the coaxial replicated the sound stage already present in the dash, whereas the midbass enhanced the overall sound. My only concern with the midbass w/o a dsp and upgraded amp, is you may not be able to push them hard enough and tune the soundstage to make it worthwhile.

If you are not planning on doing any other changes and are running with the stock B&O amp/dsp, I would lean more to the coaxial. For reference, the coaxial speakers I used were Kicker CSC65.

 

[stut1313]

I did make a ton of other changes (Amp, DSP, all new speakers, sound deadening). But just comparing speaker to speaker, the coaxial replicated the sound stage already present in the dash, whereas the midbass enhanced the overall sound. My only concern with the midbass w/o a dsp and upgraded amp, is you may not be able to push them hard enough and tune the soundstage to make it worthwhile.

If you are not planning on doing any other changes and are running with the stock B&O amp/dsp, I would lean more to the coaxial. For reference, the coaxial speakers I used were Kicker CSC65.

Thanks for the info. I assumed that was the Kicker 6.5 you used which is why I asked about the sensitivity. Honestly, with whatever phantom changes have occurred to improve the B&O austem recently I think that better quality speaker may be my plan of attack. I had originally thought of the MoBridge complete system but that might be overkill. Leaning toward replacing speakers and maybe swapping sub and adding an amp for that.

My fear is, like so many car related projects, better is never good enough. Haha

 

[Migo]

Thanks for the info. I assumed that was the Kicker 6.5 you used which is why I asked about the sensitivity. Honestly, with whatever phantom changes have occurred to improve the B&O austem recently I think that better quality speaker may be my plan of attack. I had originally thought of the MoBridge complete system but that might be overkill. Leaning toward replacing speakers and maybe swapping sub and adding an amp for that.

My fear is, like so many car related projects, better is never good enough. Haha

That is so true! I have the MoBridge system and I cannot say enough good things about it. But it is an investment, in money and install time.

If you just want to try something different than the OEM, kick panels I have a used set of 6.5" Kicker 51KSC6504 that are just sitting in my garage. They work great and have no holes. You are welcome to have them for free, just cover shipping.

 

[stut1313]

That is so true! I have the MoBridge system and I cannot say enough good things about it. But it is an investment, in money and install time.

If you just want to try something different than the OEM, kick panels I have a used set of 6.5" Kicker 51KSC6504 that are just sitting in my garage. They work great and have no holes. You are welcome to have them for free, just cover shipping.

Man, that's a super cool offer and I much appreciate it! But I am dying to to try the Cerwin Vegas in the kick panels. I've always loved CV and the tonal quality. I've just been a bit hesitant bc of everything I've read on here previously.

But hopefully someone else might see this and take you up on that !!

 

[Johnny Mo]

The coax may be a tight fit - double check the height. The other issue I see is the coax is going to give you more highs vs mids...if you changed the front speakers to something else already like Infinity or Focal or even kicker - you won't need more highs out of the kicks - so it's a bit of a waste IMHO. That said - I have the MOJOs in mine with Infinity Ref 407s up front and rear pods.

 

[Area51BS]

Adding high frequencies to kick panels drags sound stage down.

 

[stut1313]

Adding high frequencies to kick panels drags sound stage down.

Which brings me back to my original question. Do we know what frequencies are actually directed to the kicks?

 

[Area51BS]

Which brings me back to my original question. Do we know what frequencies are actually directed to the kicks?

Base system is full range with a cutoff at about 50hz. I assume BO system is same if dash speakers are tied to the kick panel like the base system. They probably have a different tune is all. Here is what comes out of base radio to kick panels.

 

[stut1313]

panels.

I think this might be good info, Buti unfamiliar with reading this data. Can you translate for those of us who didn't know what we are looking at?

 

[Brian_B]

Base system is full range with a cutoff at about 50hz. I assume BO system is same if dash speakers are tied to the kick panel like the base system. They probably have a different tune is all. Here is what comes out of base radio to kick panels.

I don't think it is connected the same for B&O. B&O system kicks and dash get their own channels. One is on the DSP, the other driven by the ACM (same as the standard 7 speaker, just with 1 speaker instead of 2). I just can't recall which speaker is driven by which.

You can sorta kinda tune the one on the ACM (Forscan, same as the 7 speaker), but I don't think you can do anything with the DSP output, short of using an A2B interface to get the signal before the DSP and bypass the DSP entirely.

*EDIT*

I found the wiring diagram, I was incorrect about which speakers the ACM drives - the ACM drives the rear pods and center channel. The B&O DSP drives both the Kicks and Dash, but does each on their own channel.

Here's the diagram
https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...agram-for-b-o-sound-system.28611/#post-976428

 

[Brian_B]

I think this might be good info, Buti unfamiliar with reading this data. Can you translate for those of us who didn't know what we are looking at?

For the ACM stock tuning - the green line shows the output when given a flat input (the red line). You can see mid-range is attenuated somewhat between about 800Hz and 2,000Hz, the midbass (200-800Hz) and highs (>3,000Hz) are knocked down just little bit and the bass gets just a bit of a boost from 200 Hz and down, with the cutoff right at around 50Hz, the signal just dies below that.

But I suspect that the same does not apply to B&O DSP tuning.

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