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Emd

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It's still cheaper than paying welders to do it manually, which is why all manufacturers have adopted this method of manufacture.

Eventually gigacasting will replace robotic bodyshops, as it's already doing in Austin, TX for Tesla. I believe the figure Elon quoted is that 2/3rds of the robots in the bodyshop have been eliminated.
I don't claim to have all the answers. I was just pointing out that robotics definitely wasn't as smooth and cost effective as most people assume. Maybe some day the eliminate every union job in the plant. If that's the goal, then they will do that regardless of the UAW fighting for better pay. So you may as well fight for all you can while there is still time. Ford made $1.8 billion profit first quarter this year, why not now?
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NatureMan

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I don't claim to have all the answers. I was just pointing out that robotics definitely wasn't as smooth and cost effective as most people assume. Maybe some day the eliminate every union job in the plant. If that's the goal, then they will do that regardless of the UAW fighting for better pay. So you may as well fight for all you can while there is still time. Ford made $1.8 billion profit first quarter this year, why not now?
Ford has to keep those profits in the bank to pay for all the recalls they have since quality is nonexistant at Ford.
 

Emd

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Ford has to keep those profits in the bank to pay for all the recalls they have since quality is nonexistant at Ford.
I see your point. Hopefully all the new robots will do better. The line workers spend maybe 35-45 seconds per unit. How much quality do you think they can focus on in that time? Fords quality problems exist because management doesn't want that line stopped regardless of issues. If you've never been inside a Ford plant and worked an assembly line, I couldn't even do justice to how screwed it is. Obviously there are some hourly workers not worth their pay, but the vast majority come to work to do a good job and are given a workload that means all they can do is just try to keep up. I was told early in my Ford career that as an assembly line worker you are never just "good at your job" if you are able to work at a slower pace its because you "don't have enough work". Hard to focus on quality when every time i get better at my job, I'm just going to have my workload added to.
 

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I agree on pay em and having a high quality workforce. But our dollar not getting anything is to blame on greedy companies trying to post quarterly highs which needs to be curbed. Our country needs to focus more on workers livelihood and less on investors making their next million.
This is the problem
 

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This is the problem
Not 100% of the problem but definitely part of it.

The naivety to believe that corporations are the ones who tanked the dollar and are responsible for this unprecedented inflation is absurd. The other part of the problem is that people who believe that greedy corporations are to blame for our current economic woes also vote.
 

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I agree on pay em and having a high quality workforce. But our dollar not getting anything is to blame on greedy companies trying to post quarterly highs which needs to be curbed. Our country needs to focus more on workers livelihood and less on investors making their next million.
If the word quality was quantity then I would agree. More money, especially in the UAW, does not mean a better product. On top of inflation we will then get the cost increase due to the workers increase. Many studies, over the years, have been done that shows UAW increases, prices at the stores increased as well.
 

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Gotta love human nature and the internet. If you had definitive proof that one side of an argument was wrong you would still have half the people claiming the proof was incorrect .
 

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I’m still trying to figure out if they actually only want to work 32 hrs per week or if it’s really about knowing they will work 40-60 hrs a week but OT pay kicks in after 32 hrs?


I can understand demands for higher pay but 32 hr workweek? Weaklings...
 

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It’s to force the companies to hire more employees to cover the missing eight hours. The union gets more members and then gets more dues, everybody’s looking to make more money, unions are no different

Assuming the plant still works a 40 hour work week, 1000 employees equals 40,000 hours a week 1000 employees working 32 hour work weeks equals 32,000, it would take an extra 200 employees to make up the 8000 hours. Therefor 20% more members in the union and 20% more dues.
 

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It's still cheaper than paying welders to do it manually, which is why all manufacturers have adopted this method of manufacture.

Eventually gigacasting will replace robotic bodyshops, as it's already doing in Austin, TX for Tesla. I believe the figure Elon quoted is that 2/3rds of the robots in the bodyshop have been eliminated.
Great just what we need. Unemployed robots with nothing to do and nobody paid attention to Asimov's 3 rules of robotics. As soon as these out of work robots become self aware, unionize, and arm themselves....
We will be assimilated. Beware the Borg.
 

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I’m still trying to figure out if they actually only want to work 32 hrs per week or if it’s really about knowing they will work 40-60 hrs a week but OT pay kicks in after 32 hrs?
No it's work 32 but paid for 40. Sort of like having one full day of PTO per week, which does not count towards OT threshold. Federal and state law would restrict their hours 33'40 as regular pay and not OT.....or we are in real trouble.
 

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I don't claim to have all the answers. I was just pointing out that robotics definitely wasn't as smooth and cost effective as most people assume. Maybe some day the eliminate every union job in the plant. If that's the goal, then they will do that regardless of the UAW fighting for better pay. So you may as well fight for all you can while there is still time. Ford made $1.8 billion profit first quarter this year, why not now?
I understand your sympathies, and agree everyone in every job in the entire world should get better pay. That would be great.

Investing is a job too. So let's think about this as an investor, who wants to fight for better pay.

Say you invest $50,000 into your 401k and buy F (Ford Motor Company) stock with it. How do you think your stock will perform if Ford is forced to pay way above market wages, compensation packages, and near-extinct pensions to unionized labor, forever? Will profit go up for the class C corporation, will shareholder dividends go up or down, and how will that effect your retirement as a major shareholder? Will Ford be able to as easily raise the capital required for new capital expenditures, to ensure that Ford can excel in the 2030s and 2040s and beyond?

There are two sides of the coin here. Most people in their 401ks have shares of Ford through managed retirement accounts, private/public pension funds, etc, along with Walmart, Apple, and all the other "Evil Corporations".

Remember the entire purpose of the stock market is for companies to attract capital, so they can 1) raise capital in times of need and 2) increase employee compensation through employee stock options at the expense of other shareholders through dilution. This is literally why we have a public stock exchange.

As an investor the downsides to having a unionized labor force is monumental. Not only do you pay much more than market rate for labor, but you also have to fight internally entrenched interests. Like government, every job will forever be fought over tooth and nail, even if there is a better way and the job is rendered unnecessary due to automation or just internal bloat. This is precisely the reason why Tesla excels at innovation and is so many years ahead of their domestic auto peers. Tesla is the only auto manufacturer making EVs profitably, en masse, despite the best efforts of their competition, and will be into the foreseeable future, a future which is 100% electric.
 
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Emd

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I understand your sympathies, and agree everyone in every job in the entire world should get better pay. That would be great.

Investing is a job too. So let's think about this as an investor, who wants to fight for better pay.

Say you invest $50,000 into your 401k and buy F (Ford Motor Company) stock with it. How do you think your stock will perform if Ford is forced to pay way above market wages, compensation packages, and near-extinct pensions to unionized labor, forever? Will profit go up for the class C corporation, and how will that effect your retirement? Will Ford be able to as easily raise the capital required for new capital expenditures, to ensure that Ford can excel far into the future? If you are OK with what Ford pays for their labor, then by all means take a look at investing into the company's public stock.

There are two sides of the coin here. Most people in their 401ks have shares of Ford through managed retirement accounts, private/public pension funds, etc, along with Walmart, Apple, and all the other "Evil Corporations".

Remember the entire purpose of the stock market is for companies to attract capital, so they can 1) raise capital in times of need and 2) increase employee compensation through employee stock options at the expense of other shareholders through dilution. This is literally why we have a public stock exchange.

As an investor the downsides to having a unionized labor force is monumental. Not only do you pay much more than market rate for labor, but you also have to fight internal entrenched interests. Like government, every job which can be replaced by automation will have to be fought over tooth and nail. This is precisely the reason why Tesla is the kind of innovation and is so many years ahead of their domestic peers. Tesla is the only auto manufacturer making EVs profitably and en masse despite the best efforts of their competition.
Yeah it’s a double edge sword for sure. I’m not saying corporations are evil. I needed that corporation to be profitable so I had a job. I am not sure what a fair wage and benefit package is for every job, but a lot of people on here seem to think they know exactly what’s fair for a job they have no clue how to do. One thing I’ve learned in the last 30 years is that nobody saying Ford workers make too much money ever think their job pays too much also. Lol funny how that works. Divide and conquer. Works every time!
 

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Worked for Fedex 35 years. No unions. They always matched UPS pay & cost of living raises. Only ones at Fedex that wanted unions were slackasses who were always on the injured list. I got all the overtime I wanted and made more money than my managers, without a union stopping me.
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