Recovery gear deep dive: shackles, straps and kinetic ropes, what to buy!

[RC Bronco]

I disagree with nothing you said.
What I was really thinking of was specifially adding a "fuse" in between two straps/or kenetic ropes.
Reason: With the breaking point being the rope it will break at the weakest part across its span.
If you use a "fuse" you can then more tighly control the breakpoint and cost of the incident.

So something like:

Pull Vehicle - Shackle - Line 1 - Fuse - Line 2 - Shackle - Stuck Vehicle.

My think is that then you concentrate the breakpoint to the fuse are then dampen near to it on both sides to prevent whipping.

The trade I see is setup complexity vs breakpoint control.

Thanks for the conversation!

I don’t have much to add to this, as I’m not an expert, but I’ll point out that I haven’t seen any of the offroad recovery guys do this

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[Q1svt]

I don’t have much to add to this, as I’m not an expert, but I’ll point out that I haven’t seen any of the offroad recovery guys do this

when you have several lines out it's less of an issue.

three here and in some cases there are more than one recovery rig

because all are soft less danger [still danger just less]

When using metal you want if possible [not always because of unknown level of wear] to control where it breaks to not have metal flying around but soft items.

Interesting that they don't use weighed bags on lines either

 

[theblackangus]

I don’t have much to add to this, as I’m not an expert, but I’ll point out that I haven’t seen any of the offroad recovery guys do this

Yeah I agree, but Im really just trying to understand the WHY?
I'll like knowing how stuff works especially when there is danger involved.

And as @Snacktime is broadly knowledgeable and mechanically inclinedI figured I would learn something from the questioning.

 

[Q1svt]

I don't remember anything about that in my/others go to rigging manual... US Army FM20-22 1970
https://www.steelsoldiers.com/upload/misc/FM20-22.pdf

To understand my needs and maybe @theblackangus

I have a winch and 100' of line (soft), to get the max power from the winch I need to spool out almost all of the line. BUT my attachment point is say 50" away.

There are several ways to rig, here are two.

In either one I do not want a break at (red) lines
If I use soft shackles of different strength I would want to place lowest at the (green) lines. I want a soft shackle strong enough for the job.... but would be less than the rest. If it breaks, it will be away from the vehicle/winch.

AGAIN others factors may cause a break else where do to things like age, unknown damage, etc

The load is actually the winch pulling the vehicle out, the load in pictures would be a hard attachment point...

The anchor in the pictures is my bumper...

 

[rbalazs]

I’ve been off roading since I was 16 years old and a lot has changed over the years with equipment and I really found that Ronny Dahl does a great job explaining everything, he’s entertaining to watch and if you haven’t watched his videos, I would really encourage you to do that.

Here is one of his more recent videos on how Offroad has changed and specifically how winching has changed.

 

[Demon4x4]

Thanks - I'm looking for a kit with soft shackles included though. I have enough of the steel ones. Other than that, looks like a good option.

Thank you.

I use this kit, Professional version.
https://yankum.com/products/off-road-recovery-kit?variant=41219240722638

Though I've also added an offset winch snatch ring, a 30'x2" tow strap, an additional soft shackle, a 10' tree saver (that one from Factor 55), a pair of action trax traction boards, oh, and a Warn VR Evo 12000 winch with yankum groove fairlead.

 

[Snacktime]

Well lot of good info and some other statements. Matt at Matt's Offroad is an excellent example of bad ideas and poor recovery techniques. He is exposing himself and others constantly. When he claims no one would do the job, the correct claim is Matt was cheaper than the helicopter and wants to film it. Its 100% legal for Matt to expose himself but not employees.

The absolute best item you can have for a recovery is a friend that stops you and makes you think.

 

[Q1svt]

@Snacktime ... seems you are still back at YOUR own words...

" 1) First is making sure you control your failure point ! "


Gee wiz how might someone do that ?

How /when would anyone [be dump enough to] rig a winch with a kinetic rope? there is a video of a K/R between two vehicles that broke, [no metal] snapped back thought a windshield cutting the drivers neck nearly killing him. How many people use weighted bags w/ KR? You think a K/R should be / is a good failure point...

If it's okay to use a 'strap' as a 'yield point' , then why cannot a soft shackle be used to do the exact same thing ?

asking for a friend... ;^)

UT is the same as any site... information is FREE, well until you use it and find out how bad /costly the opinion was.

Interesting that they don't use weighed bags on lines either

the word 'interesting' is most often used in place of ... dumbest chit I've ever seen ;^)

 

[Q1svt]

5) Putting it all together! You want a step down in strength at each connection. You are controlling your failure point (yes the most costly item is the failure point).
7/16" soft shackle (40,000lbs) => 1" or 7/8" or 3/4" kinetic rope (30,000lbs to 20,000lbs)
7/16" soft shackle (40,000lbs) => 3" or 2" wide strap (30,000lbs to 20,000lbs)
3/8" soft shackle (30,000lbs) => 3/4" kinetic rope (20,000lbs)
3/8" soft shackle (30,000lbs) => 2" wide strap (20,000lbs)

In either one I do not want a break at (red) lines
If I use soft shackles of different strength I would want to place lowest at the (green) lines. I want a soft shackle strong enough for the job.... but would be less than the rest. If it breaks, it will be away from the vehicle/winch.

AGAIN others factors may cause a break else where do to things like age, unknown damage, etc

The load is actually the winch pulling the vehicle out, the load in pictures would be a hard attachment point...

The anchor in the pictures is my bumper...

 

[theblackangus]

@Snacktime ... seems you are still back at YOUR own words...

" 1) First is making sure you control your failure point ! "


Gee wiz how might someone do that ?

How /when would anyone [be dump enough to] rig a winch with a kinetic rope? there is a video of a K/R between two vehicles that broke, [no metal] snapped back thought a windshield cutting the drivers neck nearly killing him. How many people use weighted bags w/ KR? You think a K/R should be / is a good failure point...

If it's okay to use a 'strap' as a 'yield point' , then why cannot a soft shackle be used to do the exact same thing ?

asking for a friend... ;^)

UT is the same as any site... information is FREE, well until you use it and find out how bad /costly the opinion was.


the word 'interesting' is most often used in place of ... dumbest chit I've ever seen ;^)

Hey man, I appreciate you and I are asking similar questions.
But chill, no-one needs the snark above.
@Snacktime is sharing his knowledge freely, He does so often and on various topics in great detail that takes time and energy to communicate. (You should see his suspension thread!)

Take knowledge where you can get it, question the knowledge to understand it, but always be polite when asking for knowledge because no-one is obliged to share anything with you.

At least thats the way I look at it.

 

[Q1svt]

But chill, no-one needs the snark above.
@Snacktime is sharing his

… understand, but smacktime has some history and interesting if he can take as well as he gives. ;^).

 

[Snacktime]

Most soft shackles are 2-3 times the strength of what a winch can pull. 12,000lb winch might at best put 24,000lbs doubled down. When side loading the danger is in the tree side rigging not the vehicle connection as shackles and steel are predictable.

This is a 3" 30,000lb strap look at what the actual ratings are "Working Load Limits clearly labeled for straight (9,300lbs) basket (18,600lbs) and choker(7,440lbs) configurations."
https://www.factor55.com/products/tree-saver-strap-12x3

Your looking at much lower breaking strengths on the tree saver and straps wrapped around rocks.

… understand, but smacktime has some history and interesting if he can take as well as he gives. ;^).

Smacktime will 100% crash a Matts Offroad recovery if spotted in California.

 

[Brian_B]

But chill, no-one needs the snark above.

That's just how he is, we love him anyway.

 

[Q1svt]

Hey Nate nice that you replied @Snacktime

Sorry you don’t like Matt… think he might say the same about your rigging posts. I could lol

No two riggings are the same, nor should the ‘failure points’ always be in the same place of the rigging.

Rigging needs are based on type of off roading and the terrain. I don’t off road where there are trees, desert/sand some sandy rocks

Where I read your OP, I have not run crossed the concept of ‘failure point’ logic… like the concept and are continuing to look for more information

Matt is just one of a number of people that are actually showing recoveries in the type of terrain and style I do. Yes, people can cherry pick his or others approach, but it’s always better than a written post [bla, blah bla] or a created UT video of death and destruction for a ’ FEAR’ effect

I’ve learn a lot how others move a vehicle in steps to make the actual pull easier… I don’t have a dedicated recovery vehicle with 6, 7, 8 plus winches ;^) so their rigging is going to be different than mine . BUT I said I like the multi recovery vehicles videos… because it shows how a couple of Bronco’s or Jeeps could /might be used …

Oh, seems you missed your oportunity … Matt’s recovered in California several times already

Jim

 

[Q1svt]

For Mr meme guy..

@Brian_B when do they lift the restraining order?

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