Mike Levine saying outright he does NOT care about Granger/Chapman/SAC

[Bronco216g]

Well your inbox hates you now.

No ones PM’d me so I’m safe for now lol.

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[69351windsor]

Long run, Ford had a great oppy with this objectively great product to really make a splash in the offroad market with the revived Bronco brand. It's being squandered...because of Covid...because of supply chain and manufacturing issues... and because of the unfortunate fact that Ford is hamstrung by the dealer network that is entrenched around the country to the detriment of the company and its end customers. You can pile some marketing malpractice in there too.

AND a great deal of old fashioned GREED which in this case is bubbling over like a wild-eyed junkie on table top of dope. These cheater delaers rubbing their hands, skattering like cockroaches when the light is turned on when any educated customer questions them on ADM, msrp & the like. Prett sickening.

 

[ReimundKrohn]

My dealer told me to go buy a Jeep. I think they are as frustrated as we are.

For the money of a loaded up bronco, why not just get one of these?

Damn that defender is sexy.

You bet they are. My dealer offered to find me a Jeep (and he is a small town / exclusively Ford dealer). Unfortunately for him (fortunately for me), used Jeep Wrangler prices are nearly new Jeep Wrangler prices, but finance rates are higher on used - so he refunded my deposit in full and wrote me letter saying how he “couldn’t believe how bad Ford had f*cked up the roll out.” He was just as pissed off at them as I was.

“My” Bronco has still not been rescheduled, and it was originally scheduled for a June 29 build week. That 2021 VIN will be buried in a shallow grave and who knows when the dealer will finally see it? There’s not a chance in hell I will trade my ‘21 JLU for it when it finally ships out in 2022 or 2023 though…. The Bronco is a beautiful machine, but I can’t bring myself to support a company like Ford any longer. How can I reward their abominable customer “disservice” with my hard earned money?

 

[dingle87]

[using Granger here to represent all the discount dealers]

So I ordered from a small dealer too. I just went in yesterday to re-order for MY '22. When the sales manager and I started discussing the situation about Granger, his quote was, "Oh man did they get screwed." He wasn't at all surprised about the Granger issue. When I asked how Granger could make a profit at selling $1,000 to $2,000 below invoice said Granger profit motive was to gain Bronco allocations for the future to sell those units at above MSRP.

This was stated by Granger on its July 18, 2020 thread here on B6G:
" How does this make sense for the dealership? – We are selling these new Broncos like we sell all our new cars. We sell our new vehicles at or near our cost. We get paid a commission if we arrange finance for a customer, sell accessories, sell service contracts, sell the traded-in vehicle, and on work performed in our service department. Our dealership is in rural Iowa with low real estate cost, our land and building are paid for, and we do not have a huge fixed expense budget to cover. This allows us to sell things this way and maintain profitability at the store."

So at the time of sale for a customer from out of state, the dealership can recover some lost profit from reselling a traded in vehicle, a cut of the financing, and selling a service contract. All three of those are fungible at best. Selling accessories and selling service in the service department, are the most profitable, but available to local sales only. So Granger's quoted profit motive doesn't make much sense other than to increase sales of a highly desired model and sell it at ADM as the sales manager at my dealer suggests.

My dealership has been great to work with. They are just as "transparent" as Granger. I get to sit in my salesperson's office and talk face-to-face, which is they way I prefer to do business. I'll be paying MSRP. He's making a decent profit, and I'm happy to provide revenue to my neighbors and support my local Ford store. Ford wins because Ford produced a Bronco that I can't develop and build on my own; that's how it works.

So you think Granger is "as transparent as your dealer", but question their quoted statement above and their business model? Ok.

Enjoy your Bronco when you're able to take delivery. Good luck to you.

 

[mmorgan]

Ok, so if I’m a big dealer, how is it ok for me to get penalized on my earned allocation because smaller dealers that outsold their fair share have to get their reservations first? No f’ing way I’d be ok with that.

Any way you look at it, someone is getting burnt.

Your logic here lacks serious punch and is in fact just a defense of dealer greed.
IF MEGA dealer sells 500 Broncos.
The 2% of us who are going to the trouble of buying thru SMALL dealers only represent 10 Broncos in the Mega dealers world. Maybe he should just up his ADM a bit to compensate, after all some do call it Market Adjustment.

 

[Dads_bronze_bronco]

@dingle87 there is revisionist history at work here from people who knowingly ordered from a dealer with 1200 reservations.

This "changes the rules" that everyone had come to expect- that reservations would be fulfilled roughly in timestamp order as best as the supply chain would allow.

"and the number of vehicles your dealer will receive."

 

[Lab00Rat]

This is the way i read things on THIS forum, hearsay and all, before I converted my reservation to an order.

Each dealer was going to receive a limited amount of Broncos.
You were placed in order at THAT dealer according to your timestamp.
If you switched dealers you could actually jump in line if your timestamp was earlier than others.
So Broncos should be delivered in timestamp order to each dealer if they can be built.
Once they run out, they run out for the year.
Does that mean that dealer will not have any in stock to sell before all their buildable orders are fulfilled? Will other dealers will receive stock to sell once they are caught up? I don't know

So knowing those discounted dealers had a lot of orders that would be in front of me I looked for a local dealer that showed MSRP on the list that was posted on this site. In person they said I had a good shot at getting it this year. I did get a printout of my MSRP order, don't think it's considered a contract, but its still something.

Being I have a 2 door, I was more concerned about the modified orders that become buildable that jump the line and bumping other orders back.

I do have a vin and build date

From all we know now, it's allocations. Things are NOT set in stone yet, permanent ink.

The dealer can 99 everybody and just 22 their allocation and not care at all, but Ford dealers are not like that...

[using Granger here to represent all the discount dealers]

So I ordered from a small dealer too. I just went in yesterday to re-order for MY '22. When the sales manager and I started discussing the situation about Granger, his quote was, "Oh man did they get screwed." He wasn't at all surprised about the Granger issue. When I asked how Granger could make a profit at selling $1,000 to $2,000 below invoice said Granger profit motive was to gain Bronco allocations for the future to sell those units at above MSRP.

This was stated by Granger on its July 18, 2020 thread here on B6G:
" How does this make sense for the dealership? – We are selling these new Broncos like we sell all our new cars. We sell our new vehicles at or near our cost. We get paid a commission if we arrange finance for a customer, sell accessories, sell service contracts, sell the traded-in vehicle, and on work performed in our service department. Our dealership is in rural Iowa with low real estate cost, our land and building are paid for, and we do not have a huge fixed expense budget to cover. This allows us to sell things this way and maintain profitability at the store."

So at the time of sale for a customer from out of state, the dealership can recover some lost profit from reselling a traded in vehicle, a cut of the financing, and selling a service contract. All three of those are fungible at best. Selling accessories and selling service in the service department, are the most profitable, but available to local sales only. So Granger's quoted profit motive doesn't make much sense other than to increase sales of a highly desired model and sell it at ADM as the sales manager at my dealer suggests.

My dealership has been great to work with. They are just as "transparent" as Granger. Better even is I get to sit in my salesperson's office and talk face-to-face, which is they way I prefer to do business; he does too. I'll be paying MSRP. I never expected to pay less than MSRP because it makes no sense in the case of the new Bronco market; I'll not pay above MSRP because it makes no financial sense. He's making a decent profit, and I'm happy to provide revenue to my neighbors and support my local Ford store. Ford wins because Ford produced a Bronco that I can't develop and build on my own; that's how it works.

My dealer is not using Granger's model. They are local and open to answering all my questions. No ADM, but no discounts either. They do not have a mega sales force or volume to garner many new MY22 Broncos based on a 3-year aggregate of total sales. Those who went to Granger were warned that the allocations for MY21 would leave some without a Bronco for a while, but the assumption was that the allocation math would continue to favor converted reservations until all the reservations were complete. Ford changed that math and now MANY more dealerships will hurt their customers they worked to earn their business in MY21 into MY22+.

I know Ford could discount reservation sales against future allocations to balance the dealerships to sell more to the reservation clients; and allocations could be a portion of reservation production, but that level of creativity seems to escape Ford for the moment.

 

[dingle87]

@dingle87



"and the number of vehicles your dealer will receive."

LOL... right in your post at the very top "Bronco Timing UPDATE".

They altered their original statements on how these would be rolled out multiple times since inception. Ford said nothing about pushing reservation holders out to MY2025 due to their ever changing policy. In doing so, they've trapped their beloved reservation holders who they say they care about.

edit: The update was well after the summer reservation period and the October Granger promo. How could anyone have predicted Ford would move the goalposts multiple times on them? Ford wasn't nearly as transparent as they should've been about the whole mess. Keep defending them though. Good luck to you.

 

[BlueBronco]

When I asked how Granger could make a profit at selling $1,000 to $2,000 below invoice said Granger profit motive was to gain Bronco allocations for the future to sell those units at above MSRP.

Yes, Granger was playing longball, I think everyone new that. However, they are not losing money on the deal. If they can sell at $2000 below invoice and make a bit of money or, lets say, just break even. Then it stand reason they will make at least $1000+ off of every sale that is $1k below invoice.

"and the number of vehicles your dealer will receive."

But that language as added in 12/2020.

Screenshot from Bronco FAQ 10/2020

Screen shot from Bronco FAQ 8/2020

 

[GoTigersGoBronco]

What I want to know is, what is Granger's plan when the inevitable happens and they are sitting on a stockpile of 2024 cancelled Broncos?

Less than 50% of reservation holders are completing the final steps to purchase the vehicle. I would expect there are going to be a lot of excess broncos sold as stock units everywhere.

 

[Rob1135ny]

For all the angry ppl in here. Jeep is issuing Vins in 1-5 days.

Gen pop!!!!!

 

[vrtical]

Less than 50% of reservation holders are completing the final steps to purchase the vehicle. I would expect there are going to be a lot of excess broncos sold as stock units everywhere.

not going forward since Ford lowered the threshold ALOT.

 

[Rahkmalla]

Less than 50% of reservation holders are completing the final steps to purchase the vehicle. I would expect there are going to be a lot of excess broncos sold as stock units everywhere.

Interesting, because Granger thus far has 100% name match.

What do ya know, the dealer commiting to a discount gets everyone to buy, and yet the ADM scumbags can't seem to manage the same. If only there was a conclusion one could draw there...

 

[BlueBronco]

Less than 50% of reservation holders are completing the final steps to purchase the vehicle. I would expect there are going to be a lot of excess broncos sold as stock units everywhere.

As a Ford stockholder that is some very disturbing news to say the least. Do you have a link so I can verify that statistic?

 

[Elwood]

@dingle87 there is revisionist history at work here from people who knowingly ordered from a dealer with 1200 reservations.



"and the number of vehicles your dealer will receive."

Just because they, legally, can reallocate all orders any way they like, doesn't mean that they're keeping the spirit of the promise that they made over and over again to prioritize reservation timestamps as best they could when fulfilling orders. Would you be making this argument if they were only going to fulfill all orders in a particular state first, if they fulfill orders for dealers in alphabetical order, or any other random process they choose?

At the time of the email you reference everyone knew that Ford couldn't reasonably build over 100,000 orders overnight and that it wouldn't be efficient for them to produce in exact timestamp order. They added these qualifications to acknowledge that, but emphasized the importance of timestamp, even in the paragraph you're referencing.

It is not revisionist to acknowledge that qualifications on their promise to fulfill reservations in timestamp order were made for this reason.

They certainly CAN do whatever they like. That doesn't make it honest, and it doesn't mean that it's in line with what they promised in the first place.

I think as a fact, you and I can probably agree that this change in allocation shows that they're willing to prioritize large dealers' profits over their brand in the eyes of many enthusiasts. Broncos are scarce and they can choose to let those dealers reap higher profits at my expense, instead of prioritizing timestamp order in the same way that they did for MY21. Otherwise, why did they change allocation for MY22 at all?

This leaves enthusiasts like me with different options and incentives. Many of us will exercise those options.

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