So Ford is basically obliterating dealer allocations, right?

[Mac n Nevada]

I'm sure most reservation holders waiting a year plus would be happy seeing somebody who walked off the street buy one for the same deal as them without even having a reservation.

I appreciate what you are doing and have done for the members, even though I am a Granger boy.

Out of curiosity, has anybody contacted you even interested at that price range? (Wanna know how dumb people can be)

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[Gloff]

I appreciate what you are doing and have done for the members, even though I am a Granger boy.

Out of curiosity, has anybody contacted you even interested at that price range? (Wanna know how dumb people can be)

Yes. I've had people call and ask if it's real too. If it was at MSRP we'd get 20 calls a day. It's a real problem when we've had GT500s show up on our website without a markup too.

 

[Mac n Nevada]

I didn't know the whole story. I recall some dealer getting run off and mixed them up. The fact that they offered a deal in the beginning buys a lot of goodwill.

That dude was from Atlanta and he was a dirtbag.

 

[Drex]

Not sure that's accurate. Ford spends millions of dollars in R&D, advertising and marketing to make their products attractive to the consumer. This is done ultimately to entice you and me to purchase their vehicles. We the consumer are their primary customers. Without us, Ford couldn't stay in business.

Pick any product you like, let's use Pepsi cola;

Does Pepsi advertise on tv and print, have promotional deals? Of course they do. Do you go to the Pepsi factory to pay and pick up your drinks? Kinda doubt it.

Do you buy and receive Pepsi at an authorized seller (AKA grocery stores)? Car buyers do the same, but car brand grocery stores are called dealerships.

The manufacturers of most everything sell to a middle man, they have agreements to support the sales of the middle men, the middle men take the risk of selling to the final user, their compensation for that risk and the costs associated with selling is the difference between what they pay the manufacturer and what they charge the entity to which they sell. The final purchasers buy from these middle men. We are their customers, not the manufacturer's. They are separate legal entities.

If a dealer loses money, breaks even, or gets a $10k ADM, Ford is unaffected, they make the same on each unit (kickback and other deals excluded for simplicity sake here)

Call up Ford and ask them to buy directly from as a non-dealer entity. They will tell you it is against the law in your State. How can you be the primary customer if they cannot lawfully sell to you?

Dealers are legally Ford's customers, Ford has interest in helping them sell and is contractually obligated to support them with advertising and the like, but that is it.

When you go to Jewel/Kroger/HEB to buy your Lucky Charms, are you a customer of the store or of General Mills? As the store and the manufacturer are not the same company, it cannot be both. Who are you contractually (offer, acceptance, payment) dealing with, the grocery store or the manufacturer? You are not Ford's customer no matter how much they advertise or how much they hope/help the dealers to sell.

 

[ryn0s3r1]

Pick any product you like, let's use Pepsi cola;

Does Pepsi advertise on tv and print, have promotional deals? Of course they do. Do you go to the Pepsi factory to pay and pick up your drinks? Kinda doubt it.

Do you buy and receive Pepsi at an authorized seller (AKA grocery stores)? Car buyers do the same, but car brand grocery stores are called dealerships.

The manufacturers of most everything sell to a middle man, they have agreements to support the sales of the middle men, the middle men take the risk of selling to the final user, their compensation for that risk and the costs associated with selling is the difference between what they pay the manufacturer and what they charge the entity to which they sell. The final purchasers buy from these middle men. We are their customers, not the manufacturer's. They are separate legal entities.

If a dealer loses money, breaks even, or gets a $10k ADM, Ford is unaffected, they make the same on each unit (kickback and other deals excluded for simplicity sake here)

Call up Ford and ask them to buy directly from as a non-dealer entity. They will tell you it is against the law in your State. How can you be the primary customer if they cannot lawfully sell to you?

Dealers are legally Ford's customers, Ford has interest in helping them sell and is contractually obligated to support them with advertising and the like, but that is it.

When you go to Jewel/Kroger/HEB to buy your Lucky Charms, are you a customer of the store or of General Mills? As the store and the manufacturer are not the same company, it cannot be both. Who are you contractually (offer, acceptance, payment) dealing with, the grocery store or the manufacturer? You are not Ford's customer no matter how much they advertise or how much they hope/help the dealers to sell.

Again, not accurate. Different business models. Nice spin though. Who provides the warranty on your vehicle? Who do we all call if we have a problem with our dealer? Who provides the different pricing plans (A,Z,X,D, etc.), rebates and other incentives?; clue, it‘s not the dealer. Why is Ford providing us with direct communication on our builds and build dates? Why did I just get an email from Ford this morning with the heading: “Stay pumped about your Bronco?” That email came from the Ford Motor Company Customer Relationship Center. I suspect they consider us consumers their customers whether you do or not.

Why does Ford have a Customer Service unit? The answer is in the name. We the consumers are Ford’s primary customer. They should be taking better care of us!

 

[Panaran]

You are correct, that's exactly what they said. It's what they didn't say that's the big FU and that is that If they can find no buildable orders, they're going to build dealer stock orders...bit those count towards a dealers 2021 allocation numbers.

Put simply, once a dealer has reached their allocation, Even if it was done via stock orders, then your reservation will not be built, Even if they have the parts now.

oooooh...yeah that's some bullshit. They'll probably fix that tho, I honestly can't see them screwing over a huge portion of the pre orders that have been waiting. My dealer has told me that the allocations are not set in stone as well, that Ford can change allocations based on the number of converted orders, and a few other criteria. I'm hoping they will modify allocations to accommodate current order holders. But then again, not doing so would be the most Ford move ever so.....damn lol

 

[Richtor]

Again, not accurate. Different business models. Nice spin though. Who provides the warranty on your vehicle? Who do we all call if we have a problem with our dealer? Who provides the different pricing plans (A,Z,X,D, etc.), rebates and other incentives?; clue, it‘s not the dealer. Why is Ford providing us with direct communication on our builds and build dates? Why did I just get an email from Ford this morning with the heading: “Stay pumped about your Bronco?” That email came from the Ford Motor Company Customer Relationship Center. I suspect they consider us consumers their customers whether you do or not.

Why does Ford have a Customer Service unit? The answer is in the name. We the consumers are Ford’s primary customer. They should be taking better care of us!

It is accurate. We pay the dealer not Ford. The dealer makes the final choice on the price we pa, some are below invoice with huge dealer fees, some are msrp, some above msrp. That’s the dealers prerogative. Same thing with different pricing on Pepsi from one store to the other.
Pepsi gives credits and rebates just as auto manufacturers do. They also have a customer service line.
The dealer provides the service for are warranty and Ford pays the dealer, well most of the time. I wonder if Pepsi pays Costco for returned Pepsi?

Your last point as to the emails, most people go to the dealer for info not to Ford. 100 Broncos is easier to navigate than 200k!

 

[ryn0s3r1]

It is accurate. We pay the dealer not Ford. The dealer makes the final choice on the price we pa, some are below invoice with huge dealer fees, some are msrp, some above msrp. That’s the dealers prerogative. Same thing with different pricing on Pepsi from one store to the other.
Pepsi gives credits and rebates just as auto manufacturers do. They also have a customer service line.
The dealer provides the service for are warranty and Ford pays the dealer, well most of the time. I wonder if Pepsi pays Costco for returned Pepsi?

Your last point as to the emails, most people go to the dealer for info not to Ford. 100 Broncos is easier to navigate than 200k!

Actually you are wrong. The consumer makes the final choice as to what they pay for a vehicle. It’s the buyers prerogative to make the purchase or not. The buyer can either not buy the vehicle or purchase it at another dealer for a better price. Many on this very forum reached out to Ford Customer Service to have their reservations changed to another dealer who offered a better deal. Ford recognizes that we consumers are valued customers and were happy to make the change for us. That by definition is customer service. They placed our interest over the dealership.

I think you’re missing the point though. The person I was responding to stated that we the consumer, who reserved and ordered a Bronco, were not Ford’s customers. They stated that the dealers were. I beg to differ. The dealer or middle man may be valued by Ford, as they should, but they are not Ford’s primary customer, we the consumer are.

 

[Ripcurl]

 

[Richtor]

Actually you are wrong. The consumer makes the final choice as to what they pay for a vehicle. It’s the buyers prerogative to make the purchase or not. The buyer can either not buy the vehicle or purchase it at another dealer for a better price. Many on this very forum reached out to Ford Customer Service to have their reservations changed to another dealer who offered a better deal. Ford recognizes that we consumers are valued customers and were happy to make the change for us. That by definition is customer service. They placed our interest over the dealership.

I think you’re missing the point though. The person I was responding to stated that we the consumer, who reserved and ordered a Bronco, were not Ford’s customers. They stated that the dealers were. I beg to differ. The dealer or middle man may be valued by Ford, as they should, but they are not Ford’s primary customer, we the consumer are.

We are not Ford’s customer. We are the customer of the dealer. The dealer sets the price and we the consumer agree to pay it or not.

 

[ryn0s3r1]

We are not Ford’s customer. We are the customer of the dealer. The dealer sets the price and we the consumer agree to pay it or not.

So, we’re not Ford’s customers? What ever! Not sure Jim Farley would agree.

 

[Richtor]

So, we’re not Ford’s customers? What ever! Not sure Jim Farley would agree.

We buy from the dealer. There’s a reason I buy from only a couple PPO le dealers and leave most to fend for themselves. The dealer is the one paying Ford.

 

[Bronc-O]

Hard to believe this thread hasn't been closed.

 

[da_jokker]

Hard to believe this thread hasn't been closed.

Hard to believe my post is still going, but of course it's veered off the subject so bad so it probably should be.

 

[Drex]

We buy from the dealer. There’s a reason I buy from only a couple PPO le dealers and leave most to fend for themselves. The dealer is the one paying Ford.

You might as well give up, he seems to have too much invested emotionally to publicly back down. His definition of a customer seems to be a final consumer, no matter how many layers and different companies it goes through. The world needs liberal arts majors too, I guess, maybe...

I wonder if, when trade in time comes, is the dealer a customer of the customer, of the first dealer (possible themselves?), or of Ford? It gets confusing...

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