Troubles in Jeepville?

[TellurideBronco]

Let’s deal with facts. Ford is #22, and Jeep is #19.

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[Coldsmoke]

Folks, when I created this thread I didn't mean for this to turn into a pissing contest. I just thought it was an interesting comparison of the current Jeep Wrangler. I am betting that the majority of those on this forum have, have had, or have wanted to have a Jeep.
No matter how you butter your bread, it's still a pretty cool vehicle, maybe not so much as the Bronco, but nice nonetheless. I hope at the end of the day we all just remember that this is just a forum for the exchange of ideas and info. Best Wishes to all.

 

[MyATV]

Folks, when I created this thread...

Starting a thread is sorta like kicking a bird out of the nest. You just hope it flies.

 

[Bronconheimer]

Jeeps are stoopid.

 

[Gloff]

Without checking myself, is CR ever favorable to any manufacturer that's not Japanese? At least that's how I remember it over the past 10-15 years.

I don't think Jeep deserves an excellent quality score, but CR's reputation is far from golden in my book.

Edit: Ditto Dads_bronze_bronco.

This is a function of their target audience. CR and their typical audience prioritizes projected reliability, fuel economy, and build quality over all else. These are major tenets of many Japanese vehicle manufacturers. The average Camry or Rav4 buyer doesn't really care if it handles better than a Fusion or Escape.

I haven't looked at CR, but I'm sure they ripped the GT350, if they even rated it. It has a wild, huge displacement, exotic engine that probably will need a lot of care and maintenance. That car is a bleeding edge track toy that is a huge value for money, but CR doesn't care about that.

Toyota in recent years for instance, never really pushes the envelope in infotainment, power, handling or off-road capability. There's always a sacrifice somewhere with Toyota. For the 4 Runner and Tacoma, it's power. For the Land Cruiser it's price. For the FJ it was power. For the Supra it is trusting BMW with the drivetrain (I say this as a BMW nerd).

For what it's worth, the Wrangler is excellent at it's intended purpose, (which CR doesn't give a hoot about) and I expect the Bronco will be the better overall product.

 

[timhood]

They need more than a large pool of people. They need a diverse pool of people.

You can have tons of people in dealership service department waiting rooms and get their opinion. But if that's the only group you poll, I bet the results will be biased.

That's true, but the CR pool is diverse. It's nation-wide. It's people of all kinds, etc. The only thing in common is that they are CR subscribers, which might seem to bias the pool somewhat. But somehow out of that pool they managed to get enough owners of the Wrangler and other vehicles in order to get a large enough sample for reliable data. I've owned cars that didn't show up in CR due to them being low-production volume.

I think the biggest problem people have with CR is when their own vehicle doesn't do well on the ratings. Especially if they conflate their own anecdotal experience with those of a large set. "My Wrangler has been totally reliable, so this information must be crap!" Nobody likes being told they made a bad choice when making the second-most significant financial decision in his life.

Do we think that if Jeep fixed their low quality and CR rated them highly that Jeep owners would still all the CR surveys crap?

Is there another entity that surveys as many people that doesn't have a bias? As in, not manufacturers, not JD Power, whose sole purpose is to create enough categories of winners in order to sell manufacturers the right to use their "awards" in advertising. When owners self-report that their Wranglers have had problems, what do they stand to gain if that wasn't true? If anything, an owner would want to not report problems out of brand pride.

 

[timhood]

Jeeps have been getting shit on the decades now for reliablity and comfort.

Buyers don't give a shit what CR has to say about them. They sell like hotcakes anyways.

Most jeeps and let's be honest eventually broncos sell because people want to but a life style brand more than they want to to actually live one and they'll pay and upcharge for an inferior vehicle to have that experience.

That's all very true. Sometimes people can't be helped.

"Don't do that, you'll hurt yourself!"

"I'll show you! Ow, that hurt!"

"I tried to tell you."

"I'm gonna do it again! It probably won't hurt this time!"

 

[VictoryLights]

Without checking myself, is CR ever favorable to any manufacturer that's not Japanese? At least that's how I remember it over the past 10-15 years.

I don't think Jeep deserves an excellent quality score, but CR's reputation is far from golden in my book.

Edit: Ditto Dads_bronze_bronco.

Well. Unfortunately, they aren’t wrong.

 

[lrtexasman]

Weird, CR gave the Gladiator a 5 out of 5 stars in predicted reliability. I follow the forums there and I know they are not without issues. But overall, they seem to hold up pretty good now that the aluminum steering boxes have been replaced with steel ones. I am a little disappointed in the Bronco Sport and Escape forums with the issues they are having. Really hoping the a lot of the electronics updates on the F150 get the Bronco squared away.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/consum...ep-gladiator-the-edge-over-the-toyota-tacoma/

 

[Burndog]

I had a TJ for many years (up until last fall when it was totaled). Currently looking to replace it with another TJ. I get asked by family and friends why I dont just get a newer Wrangler and reliability is one of those reasons. 4.0L is just perfect in those old TJs and if anything else goes wrong they are easy to fix in your garage. I just dont want the headaches of more recently built Jeep products. Hoping the Bronco will be better in reliability but who knows. Taking a leap of faith because I love the design and capability so much.

That 4.0 is bulletproof. Guys run 200k+ all day long in those. Very little to go wrong in them, as they aren't that sophisticated, but as you say, easy to work on and parts are plentiful making it cheaper to own.

 

[timhood]

CRJD Power's reputation is well known and understood by now. Those who pay them get favorable reviews and often win awards and it turns out Consumer ReportsJD Power are is no choosier than a heroin addict occupying a bathroom stall at the Troubadour.

Perhaps Stellantis has told CRJD Power they won't be pushing out the blood money the same way that FCA was? Could be with all the hundreds of millions of dollars in emissions penalties around the world they don't have the budget to pay off hack journalists?

I fixed that for you. It's well known that CR doesn't accept advertising money. They don't take "pay-offs". They don't sell the rights to companies to allow them to advertise their "wins". All of those things describe JD Power. JD Power literally only makes it's money from selling the rights to advertise their awards. That's why they make so many--so everyone can win:

Best initial tire pressure
Best door handle design in a hatchback or SUV
Best paint color in midsize SUVs in the $30,000-$40,000 price range

 

[NCOBX]

If anyone on this site finds CRs information to be reliable then they should go ahead and forget about the Bronco. BOF, rear drive - solid rear axle SUVs will not fair well in the rating. They will compare the Handling, Ride, fuel economy, noise level, and amenities to unibody crap like the Terrain, Palisade, Edge, Grand Cherokee and other vehicles that are not SUVs and are not being cross shopped by any rational consumer.

 

[Rvbronco]

I just drove a brand new Rubicon for the first time on Saturday. Told the salesman that I could not handle the constant steering and my fiancé said she thought the TRD Pro drove easier and more comfortably ... his response was "yeah these don't drive as well but the resale value is better."

My 2020 jl was a hot mess. That's why it's gone and the bronco is on its way....HOPEFULLY sooner then later.

 

[Hoofnmouth]

The land rover ,and the audi are some of the worst ive ever seen (how many older ones you see on the road) people keep buying them though .
Its like having a bad gf that gets drunk and hooks up with everyone and you say shes not so bad

 

[timhood]

I'm sorry if you feel wronged that they said a vehicle you like with well known issues has issues.

This is where all the CR hostility comes from. When you can't refute the facts, you go on attack with anything. I've yet to hear anyone explain to me why owners would tell CR their vehicle sucks (through the surveys of their own failure and repair experiences) if they didn't suck. If anything, there would be bias to not report problems out of brand loyalty and having to admit you made a bad financial decision.

How great a Jeep is at off-roading or whatever has nothing to do with how many problems it has. Unless we are to expect that any vehicle with off-road capabilities is going to be unreliable. CR's reliability ratings are biased only if the owners are biased in their self-reporting. When CR reviews a vehicle, it considers how well the vehicle works for it's intended purpose. It's going to compare fuel economy with other similar vehicles, as well as drivability, usability of its features, etc. And a big factor is reliability. What would be the point if CR said, "We highly recommend this car, but pay no attention to how bad the driving ergonomics are, the interior controls suck, and it'll be in the shop all the time! But, oh, what fun otherwise!"

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