Ford posts official Bronco mule off-road testing video

[Wolperdinger]

Raptor is a desert vehicle.

They suck in snow. They especially suck in snow on right trails.

Not all offroading is the same.

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[Skeets]

@Skeets you're missing the point. I love your enthusiasm but I think I speak for most when I say I’m not buying a Bronco for Raptor qualities. An IFS is perfect for a Raptor. It suits its purpose and yes, can go all kinds of great places and you can have a blast with it. However, the Bronco is a different beast and IFS isn’t something that gets me excited for it. I don’t need a Bronco to haul ass in the desert with. I need a Bronco that can take on trials, rocks and can maneuver well in tight spaces. I’m not looking for an extreme rock crawler but I’m not looking for a short wheel base Raptor either.

As a guy that owned 4 of them in the days when you could buy a locker front and rear locker from the factory I know full well what they'll do and used them to their fullest. You seem to be missing my point too because I've modified jeeps and used them as well. I modded a jeep liberty and we took it to hell and back with a simple lift and guess what no SFA and that little jeep liberty did most of the runs in Moab. The bronco met it's demise because people wanted a vehicle they could get in and out of easily and be able to use the back seat. The jeep Cherokee and Chevy blazer were both smaller vehicles that would do what you wanted and the earlier Cherokees could be modified and go rock crawling but they didn't ride well. AS venicles progressed the advent of better riding comfort came to market jeep modified it for a better ride. They both were huge sale successes when both companies had full size units in their lineup.
We already know the Bronco isn't going to be full size so you think Fords going to come to market with a new vehicle that doesn't ride well? They have to differentiate themselves from what's already in the market to pick up interest and market share. Comparing the Bronco to the Raptor is huge because Raptor has name brand identity and market appeal already established.

Now name me some places a raptor won't go comfortably that doesn't appeal to you? It will do everything most 4 wheelers will, and then some in many instances. How fast it goes is up to the end operator pushing on that skinny pedal. The ZR2 will do the same thing and we both know it's a capable rig too. I fully understand you wanting SFA and said if they give it to us it's a BONUS.......but bean counters are bean counters and knowing what I know about manufacturing the guys that build them know just like we do if you get from point A to point B in comfort and the vehicle performs is it material to our selling a BUNCH more of them? Land Rover defender faced the same questions and they had the ICON of off roaders that rode like a tank.......They started with a clean sheet of paper and built it with IFS and it's a very capable vehicle.......WHY? The end users show a HUGE preference for ride quality and it still fords rivers, is good in sand, in snow, and climbs mountains at any speed the drivers decides to take and the scenery is the same.......Ford has to compete against vehicles that ride well and as such must make sure a multibillion dollar investment won't be wasted on the other guys vehicles riding better than theirs or being more capable for the majority of end users, and now we can see why Raptors ride IS part of it's sales success and if it's a factor there with fewer sales it's damn well going to be based on a Bronco they want to sell millions of. No disrespect intended if we get it It's a plus for some and not a deal breaker for the majority..... that's what I'm trying to convey and it's just an opinion.

 

[BAUS67]

You all make good points where do I start …….

First off ... just for the record. I'm sure I will end up with a new Bronco, just for the change of pace from the Explorer. Need something for the wife to drive. Many different scenarios from there. If no SFA then keep the Jeep and modify more. which brings to the point of Ford already having two desert runners and I feel as well they need a trail machine to get all the sales they can. Would I buy a Raptor if it were cheaper ? No because I already did... an '08 F-150 that I can "modify" into a Raptor. The problem with that is also the point I was trying to make about SFA. it is VERY expensive to modify IFS for better trail duty. Which is why Jeep sells so many. I'm asked it all the time "how much is it to lift my …. (blank) " well let me tell ya, a Wrangler kit will rack you $500 and get you 35's, the F-150 …….. that same 4" kit sets you back a mere $1400 smackers and gets ya the same 35's . Tire size here is not important it is what lift kit mfg's recommend. In my opinion it is just a guide. My F-150 is leveled 2 1/2 " now and has 35's on it. If I lift it 4" I'm well on my way to 37's. Now do you see where I am coming from SFA is not only easier to modify it but also less expensive. We did an '18 Ram 2500 6", 4-Link BDS kit for a customer ( just for comparison kit fits 37's ) ....... $4K just for the lift kit …… OUCH !! Now I'm just talking the lift kit itself here no labor for install, no wheels, tires, etc. So why does Wrangler sell so well, very capable in the "woods", and everywhere for that matter, and it is also very cheap and easy to modify. and it don't ride all that bad.

 

[Skeets]

One other thing I'd like to point out to you guys that are stuck on SFA is this. All of the more capable SXS that are being built today are IFS designs and they do it all and they do it easily and will go places most of you wouldn't even consider and ride like a dream. That liability you guys keep claiming is one of the reasons they IFS articulate better and crawl up things like spiders and ride very well over terrain strewn with boulders and all kinds of uneven surfaces with IFS. If you've never ridden in one it will open your eyes. This subject reminds me of the turbo debate where folks that never owned one have all kinds of misconceptions about them and just can't fathom how wrong they are and how they enable engines to perform better. I'm 70 years old and have experienced more than most people in life. One thing i learned a long time ago is American innovation is one of our strengths and we 've done a lot of things thought impossible in the past. It's time some of you open your eyes a bit and realize engineering and suspension design have come leaps and bounds from the days the SFA ruled the world and there's hundreds of thousands of examples rolling around daily that prove it. Sales are what drive any company to produce anything they sell and it's time to face reality on it. I'm not telling any of you they WONT produce it but I'm trying to explain why it's not going to be the driving force in their decision. That's the reality of it IFA, has proven to be more common and preferential as far as the consumers are concerned, and no manufacturer on earth is going to look past that unless they can equal it by innovation. The reality is if you want a vehicle with SFA you had better get in line and get your order in on one because frankly speaking it's old technology, but the majority of folks looking to buy aren't looking for it and when you get to the top of that mountain, across that beach, over that mountain road and they never missed it at all, and arrived at same destination you did with a better ride, where's the beef? If they can build a 15K side by side to do it you think building a 50 K Bronco's impossible...........oh ye of little faith. Please understand I'm not opposed to it just facing the reality of how manufacturing works. :^) Great debate!!! appreciate everyone's comments especially the gentleman from the illustrious state of PA!

 

[Wolperdinger]

Skeets, those SxS work because they're super narrow in the front with very long arms. Can't do that with an SUV.

 

[Wolperdinger]

Where can I get a SxS for 15k that'll rock crawl like a built Jeep? Sounds sick.

 

[Skeets]

Where can I get a SxS for 15k that'll rock crawl like a built Jeep? Sounds sick.

I have one in my garage that cost less than 6K USED and it's been up and down every single trail in Moab several times. So .......... You may be talking to a guy that may know a little more than you thought...LOL You can put tires on many SXS out there and do Moab for a portion of the cost of a new Bronco ...isn't reality a bitch.

 

[Wolperdinger]

I have one in my garage that cost less than 6K USED and it's been up and down every single trail in Moab several times. So .......... You may be talking to a guy that may know a little more than you thought...LOL You can put tires on many SXS out there and do Moab for a portion of the cost of a new Bronco ...isn't reality a bitch.

That's why I'm asking for recommendations, since you apparently know your way around. Looking at the price of new SxS, I can't afford one.

 

[Paint]

The only thing I get from this is...high probability of there being a Raptor variant for me to drive to work and the grocery store.

Sweet.

 

[Wolperdinger]

Seems Raptor is only for the pickup version. F-150 in US etc. and Ranger in markets where the F-150 isn't sold.

I do wonder what they'll call the top trim Bronco, and what'll come with it. Not sure I want a Torsen diff over a front locker.

 

[Jalisurr]

Raptor is a desert vehicle.

They suck in snow. They especially suck in snow on right trails.

Not all offroading is the same.

Can you elaborate on why you say Raptors suck in snow? Is it because of their massive size and weight?

As far as I can tell, Raptor drivetrain in a smaller lighter body should be basically perfect for snow driving.

 

[Wolperdinger]

Can you elaborate on why you say Raptors suck in snow? Is it because of their massive size and weight?

As far as I can tell, Raptor drivetrain in a smaller lighter body should be basically perfect for snow driving.

Weight to tire footprint ratio, as well as the long wheel base limiting mobility. When the snow is deep, you need to air way down and float on top, so you want light vehicles with big tires and a short wheel base.

I suppose I should qualify that I'm talking about off-roading in 3+ feet of snow (snowwheeling). The vehicle of choice for that kind of thing around here is an 80 series Landcruiser on 37s or 40s, though Jeeps obviously do this well too.

 

[BAUS67]

If you've never ridden in one it will open your eyes.

Well …. S&#T !!!!! I tried to download the pics but the file is to large and I'm computer illiterate and it will take awhile to resize. sorry I'm slow at this.

but I do know what your talking about. I own 2 Yamaha Grizzlies. and the pic would tell it all but I'll try to make it short.


My son is 11, he is just learning, every time I told him to use 4WD when riding he would ask "should I use diff lock?" NO not yet, I would reply. So after our lunch break, before heading back out on the trails I showed him what "diff lock" is for. They put very large boulders by the porta-potty so people wouldn't run into them. So I climbed the rock with one tire on it and the other hanging mid air! THAT is what diff lock is for. You can go ANYWHERE you point it. It will eat. I too am no spring chicken, in our household growing up I was the remote and we had maybe 10 or 12 channels.
I too have seen and done a lot in my days on this earth also and a lot of times when I try to explain something, it's from experience.

Thanks for the Kudos Skeets !! love that desert stuff man it's just a whole different ball game when you get in tight woods trail, old logging paths, abandoned coal strip mines, and MUD. One needs to comply with the KISS method "Keep It Simple Stupid". Don't know if you've seen it yet check out mountain-mafia.com some of these rigs are using new JCB forklift axles because even the brakes are sealed in the axle assembly. Please don't take it the wrong way, not saying Ford should build something with forklift axles just the point that these machines are solid axle and will go anywhere. IFS needs a narrow chassis for articulation. just trying to help you understand where I'm coming from about the whole SFA thing. Ford has 2 desert runners and they want something that competes with a tried and true all round, trail able machine that is CHEAP to modify to make better yet, then they should build it with an SFA.

this stuff really passes the time. if it would be warm out I be in the woods on my Grizzlies not here typing here

 

[BroncoBuyer]

I can’t believe we are comparing a side-by-side to an SUV again... whats next, my shifter cart will get better lap times than your Ford Fusion?

 

[Wolperdinger]

I can’t believe we are comparing a side-by-side to an SUV again... whats next, my shifter cart will get better lap times than your Ford Fusion?

Well we need to pass the time somehow.

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