A nightmare experience with these guys

[lordbigoftasty]

For fathers day I got an LED light bar cover from 4X4TruckLEDS.com. Something that I have been looking forward towards for months. When I purchased the product, the order status was never updated. After a month with no update on may account, no email, no communication where my order was, I decided to reach out. I asked for an update and they responded with, "The manufacturer is out of stock - supposed to be getting them in a week or so".

That's fine. But first, wouldn't you want to update your website to show that you are out of stock rather than say that you have them in stock? Why take money on something that isn't available yet? I understand that with shortages that they're will be delays, and that's okay. But if you don't have the product, don't list it on your website ready for purchase.

I let it slide. I reach out a week later (since he said it would be next week). No response. I reach out a week and a half later and all I got was, "Smoked are still unavailable all that's available are clear right now". By this point, it has been 2 months since I ordered my cover.

Just last week, 3 months total at this point, the package shows up at my door. I'm pumped, I've been waiting for this thing so that I can finally install the LED bar on the top of my Bronco. (I have a soft top and this cover is supposed to prevent the top from flapping). I've had this LED bar since April just sitting there.

I take the cover out of the box, only to realize that it's for a duel row LED bar and not for a single. My fault, I ordered the wrong size. I reached out to return the item and I'm quickly sent their return and shipping policy. Which to summarize, if I want to return my order, I would need to pay them $40 (to reimburse them for their PayPal transaction costs) and return my item in an undamaged box, and no damage to the product, and cover the shipping costs.

So, if I want to the right size for my LED bar, I need to pay them $40 and then re-purchase the product for $150. So over $200 to get the correct order.

I don't like complaining about companies online. I think it's stupid. But the way that this was handled, and their customer "service" with the back and forth emails was so rude that I am taken back.

It's more important to them to re-coup their transaction costs than it is to satisfy a customer. I understand that they're a business and they need to make money. But it's customer service 101. If you want returning customers, have a good customer experience. I acknowledged to them that I made a mistake, it's on me. But to them, it's more important to have that one time sell, rather than multiple sales in the future. Not to mention the priceless world of mouth marketing to friends and family.

Also, in my email that the support team sent me, he said, "We already lost money on this order since we ate over $30 in shipping, which is more then the profits on this item..." Since they're loosing money on the product, then maybe we should all do them a favor and not buy anything from them. I would hate for them to lose money on all their sells to the point that they go out of business. Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Anyway, I have a Aerolidz Light Bar Cover - 50” / 52” - Smoked - Dual Row for sell if anybody is interested.

Edit: Included the name of the vendor.

Sponsored

 

[Eruption]

May have missed it, who was the vendor? Did you buy direct or via a 3rd party?

Ran into a similar return policy recently oddly enough.

Returns are part of a mature ecommerce business and should be accounted for in the costing model not the transaction detail, even if the best route is to destroy in field vs. returning to stock.

Brand value is too fragile to risk on items that are the cost of doing business.

 

[lordbigoftasty]

Oh shoot, I thought I had posted this under the vendor, but I guess that didn't happen.

It was 4X4TruckLEDS.com.

Absolutely, I help setup several e-commerce stores and help with their marketing. And this is business 101.

 

[Theherofails]

Sorry to hear. I have seen this QUITE a lot when it comes to Bronco accessories these days.. Everyone lists stuff in stock until you go to purchase and then it just becomes a massive run around. My only guess is people are still trying to pull off drop shipping in a world where it just no longer works on this scale. Go check how many websites list the Fox 2.5" coilovers as in stock despite none actually existing in the wild.

The only company I'm doing business with right now for Bronco parts is polyperformance.com. I've ordered a lot of product through them recently and every single one has *shipped* within 24 hours. No, not even remotely affiliated with this company other than speaking to them on the phone a few times for product support. They were very friendly and guided me towards the correct purchase when it came to lifting my Bronco.

I know that doesn't help your concern, but maybe it can save future headaches for you or others. Oh, and avoid Icon Dynamics at all costs if you care at all about customer service. Just FYI.

 

[DaveInSA]

https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/rules/mail-internet-or-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

Many, many places don't seem to know this exists.

 

[4x4TruckLEDs.com]

Our site isn't setup to list live stock statuses. The reason for this is the custom kits we offer. So we can't list live stock statuses on the site. We usually keep most of the products on our site IN STOCK at our warehouse, but we sell out sometimes. In this case, we sold out on the AeroLidz. When you placed your order we had a few others who placed their order around the same time. Other customers had their order ship out right away... and then some (such as yourself) had to wait.

The manufacturer kept giving us different stories on the light covers. They were SUPPOSED to have come back in stock quickly, thus no updates on our site, etc... but they kept running into delays and in turn, that meant we could not ship them. AeroLidz changed their design a bit so they were waiting on their vendor to finish producing the covers.

We responded to every email you sent us with information the manufacturer sent us.

When you placed your order, you did agree to our terms and conditions. We accept returns, and told you that we'd accept a return. However since the return is no fault of our own you are responsible for the paypal fees and the shipping cost (as you received FREE outgoing shipping on this order).

If the mistake was ours, we would have actually sent you a pre-paid return label. But this was no fault of our own.

This is a $150 item that cost us $5.73 in process fees + $30.56 in shipping.

Again when you placed your order you agreed to our terms and conditions. They were listed before placing your order that you agreed to as well as on our site.

We never like charging customers for returns, but in this case due to the size of the item and the shipping cost, you would be repsonsible for the freight + the paypal fees (as we NEVER get those fees back, unlike with a credit card paypal WILL NOT refund us the processing fees even on a return... it's very stupid and it's why a lot of vendors had to create policies and HATE paypal).

We're sorry you are not happy but as I explained in our email, you never reached out to us to figure out which cover you needed, you ordered one. The cover you needed we had plenty of stock on, but you never reached out to us letting us know what cover you needed.

In all our emails you were also very understanding about the delays.

My response to you when you wanted to return it was this:

As long as it’s 100% brand new, free from any damage and the shipping box is not damaged at all you can return it. Please keep in mind you will have to pay a $36.29 restocking fee. This covers the 3.49% + $0.49 paypal fee we were charged (and never get back) along with the $30.56 outgoing shipping fee we paid.

If you are okay with that, let me know and I’ll approve your RMA and you’ll be emailed return instructions.

I'm sorry you felt that response was rude... but I don't see where in my response I was rude to you. However your response to us was quite rude:

Your company has zero understanding of what the most important part of your business is. Good customer experience. Because your company refuses to care about your customer, I will never return.

Sure you eat a cost on the return, but you make up the difference from future orders. Not that I need to tell you that, I mean you know what you're doing.

I won't bother writing a review on your website. But I will tell my friends and family to avoid your store, and share with them about your stupid ass return policy.

So again, sorry the light bar cover was not in stock when you placed it, these days there are LOTS of issues with inventory (we however typically don't have inventory issues but on that particular item, we didn't have anymore left since it was being re-tooled by the manufacturer). But we kept you up to date any time you responded to us.

As you said, we run a business. It's about making money. We already lost money on the sale to begin with since we shipped it free for you. We ate that high cost in shipping and that's part of running a business. We offer free shipping over $100 and that particular item, because of where it shipped, cost us money. BUT we didnt' cancel your order or make you pay for shipping. We ate it, shipped the bar as soon as we got it.

But since you wanted to return it now due to no fault of our own, as explained our returns policy does come into place. We normally DON'T charge restocking fees but on that particular item we have no choice but to. Again this is all outlined in our terms which are on our website and listed prior to every order being submitted. This is a copy of that policy:

Please not that some items may have a restocking charge to cover the initial shipping charges from our warehouse(s) to you (i.e. headlight housings, bumpers, other large items). This is usually only held back on items which were shipped to you, the customer, free of charge. It's best to contact us prior to ordering items if you have any questions/concerns about possible restocking fees. Orders that are returned to us where PayPal was used as a payment method may incur a service charge. This is equal to 3.49% + $0.49 of the price of the item being returned. Orders that have not shipped yet and are cancelled are also subject to this processing fee. Please contact us prior to placing an order if you have questions about our policies.

We're known for our customer service. Sorry you felt the need to come on here and bash us but I thought I was pretty open with you about our policies and professional, not rude at all. We try and avoid restocking fees but we DO run a business and these days with the high costs of shipping and materials, sadly we have to have certain policies in place. MANY other companies are doing the same thing these days.

And to the comment about drop shipping someone said... I agree. I hate when companies are just drop shippers and don't stock anything. We are different then most. MOST products on our site ship direct from our warehouse. The only products we don't obviously ship are bumpers, bed covers, fridges and storage systems. As they are VERY large. Some side steps we don't ship either depending on where in the country they go because of the size.

In this case, AeroLidz is a product we stock. We try and keep them in stock at all times but again our re-supply shipment was delayed due to the manufacturer re-tooling their design on this cover. They ran into supply issues and couldn't get us our inventory for a few months

 

[The_Viking]

Bam!

 

[F OR D]

Our site isn't setup to list live stock statuses. The reason for this is the custom kits we offer. So we can't list live stock statuses on the site. We usually keep most of the products on our site IN STOCK at our warehouse, but we sell out sometimes. In this case, we sold out on the AeroLidz. When you placed your order we had a few others who placed their order around the same time. Other customers had their order ship out right away... and then some (such as yourself) had to wait.

The manufacturer kept giving us different stories on the light covers. They were SUPPOSED to have come back in stock quickly, thus no updates on our site, etc... but they kept running into delays and in turn, that meant we could not ship them. AeroLidz changed their design a bit so they were waiting on their vendor to finish producing the covers.

We responded to every email you sent us with information the manufacturer sent us.

When you placed your order, you did agree to our terms and conditions. We accept returns, and told you that we'd accept a return. However since the return is no fault of our own you are responsible for the paypal fees and the shipping cost (as you received FREE outgoing shipping on this order).

If the mistake was ours, we would have actually sent you a pre-paid return label. But this was no fault of our own.

This is a $150 item that cost us $5.73 in process fees + $30.56 in shipping.

Again when you placed your order you agreed to our terms and conditions. They were listed before placing your order that you agreed to as well as on our site.

We never like charging customers for returns, but in this case due to the size of the item and the shipping cost, you would be repsonsible for the freight + the paypal fees (as we NEVER get those fees back, unlike with a credit card paypal WILL NOT refund us the processing fees even on a return... it's very stupid and it's why a lot of vendors had to create policies and HATE paypal).

We're sorry you are not happy but as I explained in our email, you never reached out to us to figure out which cover you needed, you ordered one. The cover you needed we had plenty of stock on, but you never reached out to us letting us know what cover you needed.

In all our emails you were also very understanding about the delays.

My response to you when you wanted to return it was this:

As long as it’s 100% brand new, free from any damage and the shipping box is not damaged at all you can return it. Please keep in mind you will have to pay a $36.29 restocking fee. This covers the 3.49% + $0.49 paypal fee we were charged (and never get back) along with the $30.56 outgoing shipping fee we paid.

If you are okay with that, let me know and I’ll approve your RMA and you’ll be emailed return instructions.

I'm sorry you felt that response was rude... but I don't see where in my response I was rude to you. However your response to us was quite rude:

Your company has zero understanding of what the most important part of your business is. Good customer experience. Because your company refuses to care about your customer, I will never return.

Sure you eat a cost on the return, but you make up the difference from future orders. Not that I need to tell you that, I mean you know what you're doing.

I won't bother writing a review on your website. But I will tell my friends and family to avoid your store, and share with them about your stupid ass return policy.

So again, sorry the light bar cover was not in stock when you placed it, these days there are LOTS of issues with inventory (we however typically don't have inventory issues but on that particular item, we didn't have anymore left since it was being re-tooled by the manufacturer). But we kept you up to date any time you responded to us.

As you said, we run a business. It's about making money. We already lost money on the sale to begin with since we shipped it free for you. We ate that high cost in shipping and that's part of running a business. We offer free shipping over $100 and that particular item, because of where it shipped, cost us money. BUT we didnt' cancel your order or make you pay for shipping. We ate it, shipped the bar as soon as we got it.

But since you wanted to return it now due to no fault of our own, as explained our returns policy does come into place. We normally DON'T charge restocking fees but on that particular item we have no choice but to. Again this is all outlined in our terms which are on our website and listed prior to every order being submitted. This is a copy of that policy:

Please not that some items may have a restocking charge to cover the initial shipping charges from our warehouse(s) to you (i.e. headlight housings, bumpers, other large items). This is usually only held back on items which were shipped to you, the customer, free of charge. It's best to contact us prior to ordering items if you have any questions/concerns about possible restocking fees. Orders that are returned to us where PayPal was used as a payment method may incur a service charge. This is equal to 3.49% + $0.49 of the price of the item being returned. Orders that have not shipped yet and are cancelled are also subject to this processing fee. Please contact us prior to placing an order if you have questions about our policies.

We're known for our customer service. Sorry you felt the need to come on here and bash us but I thought I was pretty open with you about our policies and professional, not rude at all. We try and avoid restocking fees but we DO run a business and these days with the high costs of shipping and materials, sadly we have to have certain policies in place. MANY other companies are doing the same thing these days.

And to the comment about drop shipping someone said... I agree. I hate when companies are just drop shippers and don't stock anything. We are different then most. MOST products on our site ship direct from our warehouse. The only products we don't obviously ship are bumpers, bed covers, fridges and storage systems. As they are VERY large. Some side steps we don't ship either depending on where in the country they go because of the size.

In this case, AeroLidz is a product we stock. We try and keep them in stock at all times but again our re-supply shipment was delayed due to the manufacturer re-tooling their design on this cover. They ran into supply issues and couldn't get us our inventory for a few months

IMO this is completely fair.

 

[Hkak45]

Our site isn't setup to list live stock statuses. The reason for this is the custom kits we offer. So we can't list live stock statuses on the site. We usually keep most of the products on our site IN STOCK at our warehouse, but we sell out sometimes. In this case, we sold out on the AeroLidz. When you placed your order we had a few others who placed their order around the same time. Other customers had their order ship out right away... and then some (such as yourself) had to wait.

The manufacturer kept giving us different stories on the light covers. They were SUPPOSED to have come back in stock quickly, thus no updates on our site, etc... but they kept running into delays and in turn, that meant we could not ship them. AeroLidz changed their design a bit so they were waiting on their vendor to finish producing the covers.

We responded to every email you sent us with information the manufacturer sent us.

When you placed your order, you did agree to our terms and conditions. We accept returns, and told you that we'd accept a return. However since the return is no fault of our own you are responsible for the paypal fees and the shipping cost (as you received FREE outgoing shipping on this order).

If the mistake was ours, we would have actually sent you a pre-paid return label. But this was no fault of our own.

This is a $150 item that cost us $5.73 in process fees + $30.56 in shipping.

Again when you placed your order you agreed to our terms and conditions. They were listed before placing your order that you agreed to as well as on our site.

We never like charging customers for returns, but in this case due to the size of the item and the shipping cost, you would be repsonsible for the freight + the paypal fees (as we NEVER get those fees back, unlike with a credit card paypal WILL NOT refund us the processing fees even on a return... it's very stupid and it's why a lot of vendors had to create policies and HATE paypal).

We're sorry you are not happy but as I explained in our email, you never reached out to us to figure out which cover you needed, you ordered one. The cover you needed we had plenty of stock on, but you never reached out to us letting us know what cover you needed.

In all our emails you were also very understanding about the delays.

My response to you when you wanted to return it was this:

As long as it’s 100% brand new, free from any damage and the shipping box is not damaged at all you can return it. Please keep in mind you will have to pay a $36.29 restocking fee. This covers the 3.49% + $0.49 paypal fee we were charged (and never get back) along with the $30.56 outgoing shipping fee we paid.

If you are okay with that, let me know and I’ll approve your RMA and you’ll be emailed return instructions.

I'm sorry you felt that response was rude... but I don't see where in my response I was rude to you. However your response to us was quite rude:

Your company has zero understanding of what the most important part of your business is. Good customer experience. Because your company refuses to care about your customer, I will never return.

Sure you eat a cost on the return, but you make up the difference from future orders. Not that I need to tell you that, I mean you know what you're doing.

I won't bother writing a review on your website. But I will tell my friends and family to avoid your store, and share with them about your stupid ass return policy.

So again, sorry the light bar cover was not in stock when you placed it, these days there are LOTS of issues with inventory (we however typically don't have inventory issues but on that particular item, we didn't have anymore left since it was being re-tooled by the manufacturer). But we kept you up to date any time you responded to us.

As you said, we run a business. It's about making money. We already lost money on the sale to begin with since we shipped it free for you. We ate that high cost in shipping and that's part of running a business. We offer free shipping over $100 and that particular item, because of where it shipped, cost us money. BUT we didnt' cancel your order or make you pay for shipping. We ate it, shipped the bar as soon as we got it.

But since you wanted to return it now due to no fault of our own, as explained our returns policy does come into place. We normally DON'T charge restocking fees but on that particular item we have no choice but to. Again this is all outlined in our terms which are on our website and listed prior to every order being submitted. This is a copy of that policy:

Please not that some items may have a restocking charge to cover the initial shipping charges from our warehouse(s) to you (i.e. headlight housings, bumpers, other large items). This is usually only held back on items which were shipped to you, the customer, free of charge. It's best to contact us prior to ordering items if you have any questions/concerns about possible restocking fees. Orders that are returned to us where PayPal was used as a payment method may incur a service charge. This is equal to 3.49% + $0.49 of the price of the item being returned. Orders that have not shipped yet and are cancelled are also subject to this processing fee. Please contact us prior to placing an order if you have questions about our policies.

We're known for our customer service. Sorry you felt the need to come on here and bash us but I thought I was pretty open with you about our policies and professional, not rude at all. We try and avoid restocking fees but we DO run a business and these days with the high costs of shipping and materials, sadly we have to have certain policies in place. MANY other companies are doing the same thing these days.

And to the comment about drop shipping someone said... I agree. I hate when companies are just drop shippers and don't stock anything. We are different then most. MOST products on our site ship direct from our warehouse. The only products we don't obviously ship are bumpers, bed covers, fridges and storage systems. As they are VERY large. Some side steps we don't ship either depending on where in the country they go because of the size.

In this case, AeroLidz is a product we stock. We try and keep them in stock at all times but again our re-supply shipment was delayed due to the manufacturer re-tooling their design on this cover. They ran into supply issues and couldn't get us our inventory for a few months

I am in no way, shape, or form affiliated with this company. With that said I have purchased several lights and brackets from them a few times for my bronco and my 4runner. They have always been completely open and honest and I was always able to get answers to my questions right away. I would 100% do business with them again. They always gave me proper information on what was in stock and when to expect my lights.


Logistics has been screwed up and yes it sucks. But this sounds like OP was more mad about buying the wrong product and expecting 4x4truckled to pay the cost, which isn't very business smart. It wasn't their fault and I'm sorry you feel this way but this is a company I respect and they have been good to many members on here too.

Picture of my beautiful fog lights with their custom bracket for the mod bumper as proof (and I love looking at my bronco lol)

 

[Strykerwsu]

I’ve had great experiences with them as well. You can’t really expect them to pay for shipping or transaction costs for your mistake?

 

[Rick Astley]

Sadly, I'll side with 4x4Trucknuts on this one.

You accept the mistake was your own and have the responsibilities that go along with having made the mistake (not hating on you for this, we've all been there and pulled the wrong trigger before! Sucks, but it happens).

And also, inventory issues these days are the norm, not the exception. With all due respect, I'm over 2 years now without a VIN for my MY21 allocation Bronco, as an extreme example of supy chain failures.

Please note I say this while still under legal threat by them for having made my own bracket, an apparent infringement on Intellectual Property. Never make your own bracket, they own all bracket IP.

Ban hammer coming for siding with 4x4 in 3.... 2..... 1......

 

[mj63]

Please note I say this while still under legal threat by them for having made my own bracket, an apparent infringement on Intellectual Property. Never make your own bracket, they own all bracket IP.

Ban hammer coming for siding with 4x4 in 3.... 2..... 1......

You have nothing to worry about if you only made it for your own use; IP protection for the owner of the IP only applies if you try to sell the widget.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Jeezus, it's like bizarro world here today...
4X4Trucknutz deals with customers fairly, calmly and respectfully....
and the customers are acting entitled and out of line and fracking up the whole program with their mistakes.

 

[4x4TruckLEDs.com]

Sadly, I'll side with 4x4Trucknuts on this one.

You accept the mistake was your own and have the responsibilities that go along with having made the mistake (not hating on you for this, we've all been there and pulled the wrong trigger before! Sucks, but it happens).

And also, inventory issues these days are the norm, not the exception. With all due respect, I'm over 2 years now without a VIN for my MY21 allocation Bronco, as an extreme example of supy chain failures.

Please note I say this while still under legal threat by them for having made my own bracket, an apparent infringement on Intellectual Property. Never make your own bracket, they own all bracket IP.

Ban hammer coming for siding with 4x4 in 3.... 2..... 1......

Let's actually clear the air and get one thing straight.

Octavian7896 made a public post stating that he reversed engineered our bracket and wanted to provide the plans to people. We made him aware that doing so would be an infringement on our I.P. and advised him against doing so. Making one for personal use is one thing, but what he wanted to do was a clear violation.

I didn't want to see him get in trouble and made a friendly suggestion he not go down that road. For personal use, is one thing. But he made it very clear what he was doing.

We actually have a patent pending design. That's a fact. Actually... if it wasn't we would get in a LOT of trouble for making such claims if they were not true. But we spent a lot of money with lawyers to file a patent on our design. It'll take time for the patent to get issued but we are OFFICIALLY patent pending and have been for quite some time.

We made him aware not to continue down the road he was going to avoid any trouble. I could have had my lawyers involved, but decided to just give him a heads up.

Then he decided to side with some internet trolls and turned from a nice/understanding person in the matter to "hey 4x4 is attacking me" and siding with the trolls.

And you continue to egg on that matter as if you have something to gain, which you dont other then your 5 minutes of fame thinking you are being "funny" when in fact you are probably bordering on being banned from this forum for starting trouble. Nobody wants a trouble maker here.

Thank you for siding with us on this customer's issue with the return... but you need to stop trying to gain attention with the ongoing jokes and what now about our I.P. - It's honestly getting old now and your need to hijack as many threads to gain attention is getting old.

 

[4x4TruckLEDs.com]

You have nothing to worry about if you only made it for your own use; IP protection for the owner of the IP only applies if you try to sell the widget.

Correct. Personal use is one thing... what was happening was the person who made the thread (which is now closed) was trying to provide the plans to other people and even admitted to basically copying our design. RICK in this case had no part in that, he was just someone chiming in to cause more chaos and egg on the issue. Now he goes around with his jokes. There is no "legal threat" right now and in fact, Ricks statements are actually considered defamation since he is spreading false information by going around making claims that we're in some type of legal squarrel with him...

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