Vehicle Semiconductor Chips 101

[Jdc]

Interesting. But is it true we actually discovered transistor technology from space beings in the Roswell UFO crash??

I get to use this twice in one day!

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[Dom]

Transistors do not produce electromagnetic fields. The on/off swithching is caused by electron flow and how each transistor is "doped". Most people don't understand how much it takes to create a semiconductor chipe. I mean if we are talking about a processor of any sort, it would amaze you how much power and machine effort gets put into each of these steps. Most semiconductors do not need 3000 steps or operations to be complete. It really depends on if you are making a descrete device, memory, or a processor, etc. Oh, and yes semiconductor uses a shit ton of water. It's insane how much water these processes use. We try to reclaim and reuse as much as possible though.

 

[Min_Ahn]

Weather electricity will flow through the semiconductor or not

Whether

 

[Dom]

Whether

Please never read any of my posts. You'll have to break out the red pen for sure! LOL

 

[lakesinai]

There are a lot of gear heads here that can rattle of how engines and drivetrains work and how to make many modifications on our Broncos. But they might struggle to describe what a semiconductor does and why is there a shortage. I had a reply to a post that said "I know just leave them out". Not

First full disclosure I like this stuff and I do have an engineering degree but I am not am expert but thought I would provide a basic overview since this is such a big topic now.

• What does semiconductor mean? Metal is a conductor of electricity and glass is a insolater (does not conduct). A semiconductor can be either. Weather electricity will flow through the semiconductor or not is changed by energy. In electronics, the energy is electromagnetic fields produced by transistors. The transistors and software, for example will dictate off or on , up or down, locked or not locked and a lot more detailed decisions about when to open the circuit.
• How many semiconductors are there is a car? Overall the world uses one trillion semiconductor chips a year! You probably know they are in every electronic device. The auto industry uses about 10% of the total. In one car there can be 3,000 chips.
• How are they manufactured? This is where it gets very complicated. A chip takes 2 months to make and goes through 3000 manufacturing steps. They are made on a silicon wafer. The silicon wafer is the "semiconductor" material. This goes through a dozen or more machines before complete. It takes massive amounts of pure water to purify equipment. One factory reported they used 60,000 tons of water a year. Because of the requirements and complexity, there are only a handful of factories in the world. The order lead time prior pandemic was 10 weeks and is now roughly 18 weeks.
• Why is there a shortage? There were multiple factors that came together to cause the current shortage.
  • -First at the pandemic auto maker reduced orders expecting a reduction in car buying. At the same time there was a huge increase in buying of other stay at home electronics. For a somewhat brief period, the chip manufacturers focused on providing chips to other industries and auto orders were now behind
  • -Then the strained relations and trading with China, where the biggest chip manufactory was located ,reduced supply. But this was not really a direct hit to auto.
  • -A majority auto chips were made in Japan and in one factory. This factory had a severe fire. This is what hurt Ford the most.in getting behind on orders. This plant is now back but not full capacity.
  • -Another major factory in Twain was shut down due to a drought there and they did not have enough water.
• What did Ford do? Contrary to popular opinion here Ford did make some moves. They made an exclusive partnership directly with a foundry, global foundries, This vertical integration is not common in auto. Overall they are in slightly better or the same position as most auto makers. (Tesla did do some creative software engineering to make better use to available chips.)

Want more Semiconductor Video.

I hope that helps. We know the track record with the Bronco and delays. But this one is truly farther reaching than Ford and the bronco. We have less of a gripe in my opinion.

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Thank you. There's too much griping on this forum, not enough data, too much blaming, so thank you!

 

[Redgar48]

It would be interesting to know what exactly is missing. There are likely a few types / specs of chips in cars. How they build with some missing is a mystery. The ease of the install is likely the deciding factor.

That pretty much sums it up. We can build cars without touchscreens or cameras but the big one is the BCM (body control module) when we don't have, we're laid off.

 

[ocbucks1]

That pretty much sums it up. We can build cars without touchscreens or cameras but the big one is the BCM (body control module) when we don't have, we're laid off.

Yes the fact they are driving them to the lot tells it’s not BCM. I wonder if they would consider shipping and letting the dealer install. Suppose that has issues to.

 

[Jimmiee]

Those are the modules and what the chips control like the seats, etc. But the boards can be installed separately from what module it controls after the build. Plug in of course not solder. They don’t leave out the seats if the chips are missing that control the seat.

Most modules are sealed units so a circuit board cannot be installed into the module. The modules are plug and play although they will not play until being programmed. On most new vehicles a complete reflash is needed when replacing a module. Here's a picture of an F150 Seat Module.

 

[ocbucks1]

Most modules are sealed units so a circuit board cannot be installed into the module. The modules are plug and play although they will not play until being programmed. On most new vehicles a complete reflash is needed when replacing a module. Here's a picture of an F150 Seat Module. View attachment 265073

Yes I understand that some are easier to install after build. Like perhaps auto stop. I don’t know but it’s seems logical they could manage supply through specific modules construct.

 

[LSBronco13]

There are a lot of gear heads here that can rattle of how engines and drivetrains work and how to make many modifications on our Broncos. But they might struggle to describe what a semiconductor does and why is there a shortage. I had a reply to a post that said "I know just leave them out". Not

First full disclosure I like this stuff and I do have an engineering degree but I am not am expert but thought I would provide a basic overview since this is such a big topic now.

• What does semiconductor mean? Metal is a conductor of electricity and glass is a insolater (does not conduct). A semiconductor can be either. Weather electricity will flow through the semiconductor or not is changed by energy. In electronics, the energy is electromagnetic fields produced by transistors. The transistors and software, for example will dictate off or on , up or down, locked or not locked and a lot more detailed decisions about when to open the circuit.
• How many semiconductors are there is a car? Overall the world uses one trillion semiconductor chips a year! You probably know they are in every electronic device. The auto industry uses about 10% of the total. In one car there can be 3,000 chips.
• How are they manufactured? This is where it gets very complicated. A chip takes 2 months to make and goes through 3000 manufacturing steps. They are made on a silicon wafer. The silicon wafer is the "semiconductor" material. This goes through a dozen or more machines before complete. It takes massive amounts of pure water to purify equipment. One factory reported they used 60,000 tons of water a year. Because of the requirements and complexity, there are only a handful of factories in the world. The order lead time prior pandemic was 10 weeks and is now roughly 18 weeks.
• Why is there a shortage? There were multiple factors that came together to cause the current shortage.
  • -First at the pandemic auto maker reduced orders expecting a reduction in car buying. At the same time there was a huge increase in buying of other stay at home electronics. For a somewhat brief period, the chip manufacturers focused on providing chips to other industries and auto orders were now behind
  • -Then the strained relations and trading with China, where the biggest chip manufactory was located ,reduced supply. But this was not really a direct hit to auto.
  • -A majority auto chips were made in Japan and in one factory. This factory had a severe fire. This is what hurt Ford the most.in getting behind on orders. This plant is now back but not full capacity.
  • -Another major factory in Twain was shut down due to a drought there and they did not have enough water.
• What did Ford do? Contrary to popular opinion here Ford did make some moves. They made an exclusive partnership directly with a foundry, global foundries, This vertical integration is not common in auto. Overall they are in slightly better or the same position as most auto makers. (Tesla did do some creative software engineering to make better use to available chips.)

Want more Semiconductor Video.

I hope that helps. We know the track record with the Bronco and delays. But this one is truly farther reaching than Ford and the bronco. We have less of a gripe in my opinion.

​

​

​

Your comments are well taken, but Ford stated earlier in the Bronco production when the discussion of Chips was made was Ford had enough chips to go into the reservation holder production of the Bronco. Ford needs to admit they took a percentage of those chips and moved them into other production vehicles. My belief was they did it when the MIC issues started to slow down Bronco production.

 

[jamtra]

I get to use this twice in one day!

I watch that show all the time!! Love it!

 

[ocbucks1]

Your comments are well taken, but Ford stated earlier in the Bronco production when the discussion of Chips was made was Ford had enough chips to go into the reservation holder production of the Bronco. Ford needs to admit they took a percentage of those chips and moved them into other production vehicles. My belief was they did it when the MIC issues started to slow down Bronco production.

I heard they had received an order less than the amount ordered by a significant amount. Not a great excuse but the lead time is 3-5 months and that would be a problem. Many automakers had similar issues recently.

 

[The Memedalorian]

2 years ago when things got weird, I started reading all the car websites to find Bronco info to distract myself and stumbled across this article which has stuck with me ever since.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a32034437/computer-chips-in-cars/

I'd go back to manual roll up windows and manual seats and a basic sound system with just an AUX port for my phone if it meant saving a few thousand bucks.

My very first vehicle had power steering and that's it and I'd love to drive it just one more time.

 

[d_bearhugs]

There are a lot of gear heads here that can rattle of how engines and drivetrains work and how to make many modifications on our Broncos. But they might struggle to describe what a semiconductor does and why is there a shortage. I had a reply to a post that said "I know just leave them out". Not

First full disclosure I like this stuff and I do have an engineering degree but I am not am expert but thought I would provide a basic overview since this is such a big topic now.

• What does semiconductor mean? Metal is a conductor of electricity and glass is a insolater (does not conduct). A semiconductor can be either. Weather electricity will flow through the semiconductor or not is changed by energy. In electronics, the energy is electromagnetic fields produced by transistors. The transistors and software, for example will dictate off or on , up or down, locked or not locked and a lot more detailed decisions about when to open the circuit.
• How many semiconductors are there is a car? Overall the world uses one trillion semiconductor chips a year! You probably know they are in every electronic device. The auto industry uses about 10% of the total. In one car there can be 3,000 chips.
• How are they manufactured? This is where it gets very complicated. A chip takes 2 months to make and goes through 3000 manufacturing steps. They are made on a silicon wafer. The silicon wafer is the "semiconductor" material. This goes through a dozen or more machines before complete. It takes massive amounts of pure water to purify equipment. One factory reported they used 60,000 tons of water a year. Because of the requirements and complexity, there are only a handful of factories in the world. The order lead time prior pandemic was 10 weeks and is now roughly 18 weeks.
• Why is there a shortage? There were multiple factors that came together to cause the current shortage.
  • -First at the pandemic auto maker reduced orders expecting a reduction in car buying. At the same time there was a huge increase in buying of other stay at home electronics. For a somewhat brief period, the chip manufacturers focused on providing chips to other industries and auto orders were now behind
  • -Then the strained relations and trading with China, where the biggest chip manufactory was located ,reduced supply. But this was not really a direct hit to auto.
  • -A majority auto chips were made in Japan and in one factory. This factory had a severe fire. This is what hurt Ford the most.in getting behind on orders. This plant is now back but not full capacity.
  • -Another major factory in Twain was shut down due to a drought there and they did not have enough water.
• What did Ford do? Contrary to popular opinion here Ford did make some moves. They made an exclusive partnership directly with a foundry, global foundries, This vertical integration is not common in auto. Overall they are in slightly better or the same position as most auto makers. (Tesla did do some creative software engineering to make better use to available chips.)

Want more Semiconductor Video.

I hope that helps. We know the track record with the Bronco and delays. But this one is truly farther reaching than Ford and the bronco. We have less of a gripe in my opinion.

​

​

​

My machine shop works directly with semiconductor. We make the vacuum chambers for companies. These vacuum chambers are how the wafers are made. They need to be made in a vac sealed chamber. Any small particle that gets on these wafers will destroy it.
Part of what it killing the industry is our situation. We are incapable of keeping up with the business as are many other small shops that do this. The supply chain that everyone is very upset about stems directly from a material shortage that does not allow us to meet the delivery dates. We push for our material but our suppliers can only get us what the mills supply.
If the mill is late, we are automatically late. From there its a butterfly affect. Leaving anything that has a microchip at the mercy of the situation we are in.

 

[ocbucks1]

2 years ago when things got weird, I started reading all the car websites to find Bronco info to distract myself and stumbled across this article which has stuck with me ever since.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a32034437/computer-chips-in-cars/

I'd go back to manual roll up windows and manual seats and a basic sound system with just an AUX port for my phone if it meant saving a few thousand bucks.

My very first vehicle had power steering and that's it and I'd love to drive it just one more time.

its a good point. If there are some none critical controls like auto stop just deliver the bronco without and let the dealer add later. You probably can’t change back things to manual or other changes without basic design impacts.

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