Technophobes: How Scared Is Too Scared?

[Fosters]

I'm an IT guy and love technology, and I'll be quick to jump on the give me the latest and greatest technology... What gets annoying is when you go to modify stuff - I can never leave anything alone. Stereo systems - I'm sorry, even the Bang & Olufsen system in my F450 doesn't come close in quality to the one I specced out/pieced together/designed for the 200k mile 2004 mustang jalopy. I would upgrade the stereo in the truck, but truth be told, it's a royal pain in the ass with how integrated it is with the rest of the vehicle. I imagine in 20 years when these vehicles are starting to get long in the tooth and a stereo stops working and takes out vital functions with it; and you can't just get one out of a junkyard that'll fit because you need the right firmware and need as-built programming, and all kind of other junk - that's the part that I hate. I guess that makes me a technophobe in some people's eyes; but in reality, I'd love it if less proprietary and more open stuff was used...

Imagine if the actual stereos in cars had the audio cables using RCAs (or at least the somewhat standard in Europe on older cars - those ISO harnesses), and a USB or ethernet or something else fairly standard as the data cable...

The nav unit in my old Rubicon did record the offroad movements and left breadcrumbs - very useful for someone as directionally challenged as me. At the same time I also remember running like hell when seeing a rain storm start and remembering I had the top down... Had it been an old TJ/YJ/CJ, that wouldn't have been a problem.

Last but not least, when it comes to offroad tech... yes, have all of the "modes" for those people who need em.. but let me pick everything in manual mode too. Plenty of videos of subarus that boast how great their AWD system is, when they get hung up in places where a 500 dollar cherokee can get through just fine because it just lets the driver drive and doesn't interfere thinking it knows better for you.

Technology is good, but it can have its downsides.

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[Stampede.Offroad]

..... but let me pick everything in manual mode too. Plenty of videos of subarus that boast how great their AWD system is, when they get hung up in places where a 500 dollar cherokee can get through just fine because it just lets the driver drive and doesn't interfere thinking it knows better for you. ....

Plenty of "smart" technology only needs to be smarter than the average idiot to earn its title.

 

[PAPA old school]

weight is not my issue, its the electronic crap that is continually plaguing us in the vehicles now . less tech the better. my tire sensor was 80 bucks to tell me i had a low tire that wasnt low. now my drivers door lock wont lock , everything else still works , another 80 buck part. plus labor, o2 sensors and check engine lights,
I'm old school , i know how to set a set of points with a matchbook. i can change plugs and not hope they dont break off in an aluminum head, that dang coil over plug that plaged me in my 5.4 titan was the reason i dont own it anymore, Cant tell you how many of them i changed I can change oil and check my oil, and radiator levels, check my tranny fluid, check my differential fluids, Own lots of tools and know how to use them. It seems like they dont want us to do anything but take it to the dealership.

Now with that said , i like locks, tilt, cruse, electric windows,.the basics could care less about heated or cooled seats, (buy cloth). back up camera would be nice but i would like to actuate it when i want to check my load and trailer.while im driving occasionally. everything else is a load of junk to me. pitch and tilt is useless, everything else i need is on my cell phone. all i want to tow is a flat bottom boat, or a 4 wheeler trailer, if i want to tow a house ill fire up the 1 ton! I would have never used my bronco.

 

[aplm7]

weight is not my issue, its the electronic crap that is continually plaguing us in the vehicles now . less tech the better. my tire sensor was 80 bucks to tell me i had a low tire that wasnt low. now my drivers door lock wont lock , everything else still works , another 80 buck part. plus labor, o2 sensors and check engine lights,
I'm old school , i know how to set a set of points with a matchbook. i can change plugs and not hope they dont break off in an aluminum head, that dang coil over plug that plaged me in my 5.4 titan was the reason i dont own it anymore, Cant tell you how many of them i changed I can change oil and check my oil, and radiator levels, check my tranny fluid, check my differential fluids, Own lots of tools and know how to use them. It seems like they dont want us to do anything but take it to the dealership.

Now with that said , i like locks, tilt, cruse, electric windows,.the basics could care less about heated or cooled seats, (buy cloth). back up camera would be nice but i would like to actuate it when i want to check my load and trailer.while im driving occasionally. everything else is a load of junk to me. pitch and tilt is useless, everything else i need is on my cell phone. all i want to tow is a flat bottom boat, or a 4 wheeler trailer, if i want to tow a house ill fire up the 1 ton! I would have never used my bronco.

just today, Hackett the CEO big boss of Ford made a great announcement that he wants to let consumers perhaps decide what they want/don’t want in their car. Or just that they are going to cut back on total count of under used tech in general for the cars.

http://fordauthority.com/2019/12/ford-ceo-jim-hackett-says-car-prices-cant-keep-rising-forever/

 

[BroncoBuyer]

just today, Hackett the CEO big boss of Ford made a great announcement that he wants to let consumers perhaps decide what they want/don’t want in their car. Or just that they are going to cut back on total count of under used tech in general for the cars.

http://fordauthority.com/2019/12/ford-ceo-jim-hackett-says-car-prices-cant-keep-rising-forever/

Great! get rid of Dual zone climate control. Sick of dicking with multiple blend door issues.
Ditch powered tail gates and suv hatches. They operate too slow and more for show than a useful necessity.
Get real with auto stop start, just put it on a timer, if your idling for more than 2 minutes fine, but to shut down every stinking time you stop is dumb.
Stop with power folding rear seats, if a soccer mom can’t pull a knob or strap to fold the 3rd row seat down to put groceries In the back of the car without a bunch of electronics and electric motors we all have to pay for, she shouldn’t have a license to drive.
Stop with the pop out sprayers for cameras, we do not need James Bond vehicles with all the tubing, pumps, and pop open gimmicky sprayer doors on all of our cameras. That stuff is a major pain to fix when it fails. That brings up cameras too. I mean how stinking many cameras do we really need to successfully drive a car or truck? I think the new Superduty has like 7 cameras or some crazy crap like that. Seriously, how much does that add to an already astronomical $75k truck?
why can’t a guy get a nice 3/4 ton truck equipped with some nice leather and a diesel engine without buying an extra 30k worth of nonsense like a “power” sliding rear windows and automatic trailer backing with electric steering anymore?

 

[Carolina Jim]

Hackett the CEO big boss of Ford made a great announcement that he wants to let consumers perhaps decide what they want/don’t want in their car.

D A M N - this is a pretty big deal. In fact, we've beat this topic to death right hear on this forum. In the interview Hackett referenced increase in average dollar amount per vehicle sold - after exiting the cheap sedan market. But I would also think the average customer vehicle ownership time will expand - with a lineup dominated by 150s, Rangers, Broncos, & Mustangs. As we've opined here, much of that tech gets a bit ripe after 7-9 years.

Kinda surprised we don't have more forum members popping corks...I imagine the next 4-5 weeks will be devoid of significant breaking news.

 

[bbostic5]

just today, Hackett the CEO big boss of Ford made a great announcement that he wants to let consumers perhaps decide what they want/don’t want in their car. Or just that they are going to cut back on total count of under used tech in general for the cars.

http://fordauthority.com/2019/12/ford-ceo-jim-hackett-says-car-prices-cant-keep-rising-forever/

If Ford follows through on this, it's enormous news.

 

[Sherminiator]

Get real with auto stop start, just put it on a timer, if your idling for more than 2 minutes fine, but to shut down every stinking time you stop is dumb.

That isn't going away...it helps save gas and its a nice improvement for companies CAFE ratings.

My wife's 2017 Escape has it and it was slightly annoying at first, but I barely notice it now and once you take your foot off the brake, the engine is on.

 

[Sherminiator]

But auto start/stop is not necessarily a big plus for the individual owners. Especially longer term and used vehicle owners. Because the fuel savings for an individual not worried about fleet CAFE might be rather small, with the negative of having to replace significantly more expensive parts down the road including battery and starter. In some ways the owner is paying extra for the manufacturer's CAFE benefit.

In the almost 30 years I've owned cars, I've never had to replace a starter in car. Batteries yes, but pretty much anything made past 2005 eats batteries with in 3 years of owning it due the increase use of electronics. Starters on Stop/start vehicles use a supercapacitor to store energy to start the car back up and they've been beefed up to handle additional start cycles. So far after almost 45K miles my wife's Escape hasn't had any issues with it.

Typical usage cycle for a new car before it has any major mechanical issues is roughly 10 years/15K miles per year. I can give two shits about used vehicles since I buy new and Ford doesn't make $$ off used car sales.

 

[Sherminiator]

But other people do buy used. I have several old cars. As I've mentioned before, there can be a large gulf between persons who are typically buying new and unloading aging vehicles ... compared to persons who buy used down the road.

I do give many "shits" about used vehicles, including components such as starters and batteries, which I have replaced on various vehicles. Beefed up higher performance starters, higher capacity and multiple batteries with related additional components, will typically cost more to replace down the road. And these additional systems can offer more things to go wrong down the road.

If you are unloading vehicles before warranties run out and have good luck after with starters etc fine. Works for you - but not for others who follow a different ownership model.

Your missing the point-Ford isn't concerned about used car sales since they don't make money on them. The design components that should generally last 150K miles or about 10 years, which is reasonable for someone buying a new car. What happens after that really isn't of much concern to Ford itself.

 

[PNW_Bronco94]

Your missing the point-Ford isn't concerned about used car sales since they don't make money on them. The design components that should generally last 150K miles or about 10 years, which is reasonable for someone buying a new car. What happens after that really isn't of much concern to Ford itself.

I think you guys are talking past each other. Ford may not care about their stuff lasting more than 10 years, but a lot of consumers do. This is especially true for something like the BroncoBronco, which appeals to an enthusiast base that is probably more likely to hold on to their Bronco for much longer than a typical Escape or Taurus owner. Those cars are throw away appliances, unlike (hopefully) the Bronco.

 

[BroncoMike]

Your missing the point-Ford isn't concerned about used car sales since they don't make money on them. The design components that should generally last 150K miles or about 10 years, which is reasonable for someone buying a new car. What happens after that really isn't of much concern to Ford itself.

Except in the realm of resale value. Taken to the logical extreme, a vehicle that is worth nothing at 150k has less appeal to a secondhand buyer at 100k or even 75k. Lots of people buying new cars have *zero* cognizance of residual value 5-8 years hence, but for marques with notoriously good resale value, it's a legitimate selling point for savvy buyers. When a person returns to the dealer to trade in their car, only to find it's worth substantially less than their remaining note, it can negatively alter their perception of value in the brand.

I'm of the belief that most of the principal mechanical and electrical systems in production today are extremely robust and will last a very long time. It's the smaller parts and pieces that fail and cause expensive headaches. Someone mentioned blend doors, which are an assache to replace. Another example: 2015 Explorer shift mechanism, kept going crazy with "shift vehicle to park" warnings when trying to start it - wouldn't allow it to start without monkeying with the shifter for sometimes minutes. Dealer price to replace entire shifter mechanism was $600, and a LOT of people paid it. Someone online (Edge forum, I believe, as it affected them as well) found it was a $4.00 micro switch available from an electronics supply house (but not from Ford). About an hour's worth of digging in the console and removing a tiny pin switch, soldering the new one in, and done. $600, really? And almost as bad, burying a $4.00 part under $90 of labor? I bet dealers unnecessarily replaced hundreds of shifter mechanisms, just blowing it off and passing the cost along to owners. That behavior will change brand loyalty faster than needing a new starter at 150k.

 

[OX1]

Except in the realm of resale value.

In late 09 we bought a left over base auto Impreza with sticker of $17.5K, it was the cheapest AWD vehicle made that still had relatively
decent HP for it's size (2.5, 170 Hp I think). Didn't want to put big money in something that would have 150K on it in 4 years.

In 14, traded that for our first Escape. Got $5200 without even trying very hard with 148K on it. Personally, I thought the car
was generally a POS, superloud on highway and sparce, but I guess the general public loves even the old one's.

 

[PAPA old school]

just today, Hackett the CEO big boss of Ford made a great announcement that he wants to let consumers perhaps decide what they want/don’t want in their car. Or just that they are going to cut back on total count of under used tech in general for the cars.

http://fordauthority.com/2019/12/ford-ceo-jim-hackett-says-car-prices-cant-keep-rising-forever/

Thats wonderful news, There is a limit to where people will spend. it's no longer theirs a new car in every driveway, It has gotten to There is a new car on the street or in the neighborhood. And everyone is wondering when they will come and get it. As i get older , medical bills and insurance is more important than that NEW ride. But then again i dont fit in that demographic featured of 29 years compaired to the 9 years. change the figures to 10 year increments and you will see the real numbers

 

[PAPA old school]

By the way, since a subject was auto start/stop - the current Jeep JL Wrangler has a couple different auto start/stop implementations. For the BSG variety, below is a link to the $1,063.33 48v battery replacement! Of course probably by the time 8 years rolls around, if the battery fails there will be cheaper alternatives. (And the person who unloaded it will not care after warranty.)

But the guy who eventually gets hold of the rig down the road, could be in for potentially expensive battery replacements, not to mention issues with various ancillaries. For example, this JL has a battery cooling system with various components, which could start calling a later owner's name, lol.

https://www.factorychryslerparts.co...lt-Starter-Generator/13254545/68381513AA.html

By the way, since a subject was auto start/stop - the current Jeep JL Wrangler has a couple different auto start/stop implementations. For the BSG variety, below is a link to the $1,063.33 48v battery replacement! Of course probably by the time 8 years rolls around, if the battery fails there will be cheaper alternatives. (And the person who unloaded it will not care after warranty.)

But the guy who eventually gets hold of the rig down the road, could be in for potentially expensive battery replacements, not to mention issues with various ancillaries. For example, this JL has a battery cooling system with various components, which could start calling a later owner's name, lol.

https://www.factorychryslerparts.co...lt-Starter-Generator/13254545/68381513AA.html

That will be the day i would say im out of here, nice to know this info. Son just bought a new chevy silverado with start/stop. he hates it. there is an overide switch, but who wants to screw with that all the time. dod you see the core charge was 1500 also, 2500 for a new battery if you dont have a core , looks like there worth more that Catalitic converters, they will be stealing these next.

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