Shady Dealer Tactics

[userdude]

Problem is, i know exactly what i want and will not budge. I don't need stickers $1700, beadlock capable wheels for 3k, the 3 little carbon trim pieces for $1700, nitrogen in my tires or any other unnecessary add ons. Just give me a Raptor with power seats and the color i want. I would spring for the color match top, at the price i want and nothing else. I missed out 1 because i had to buy my daughter a car and another because i missed an email from a dealership that sold it before i could reach out. I have credit union financing, Ford Financing or cash if i have to but i don't confuse needing something with wanting something. I assume an increase of $1500 for the student 1st responder and military discounts.

I don't think he was so much accusing you of anything, just that a no-nonsense attitude works best with dealers that are willing to return it. If that's how you are, and you get that kinda response, I mean, red flag it and move on. To a degree I kinda assume this thread is about making fun of these tactics, more so than crying about it happening, no?

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[Timo]

After negotiations were over and a price was agreed on, a dealer tried to slip a $400 "vin etching" charge on the contract I was about to sign. So watch out for those type of antics.

Something like that happened to me on the 1st car i bought for myself in my 20's. Price was discounted to 15k and i put 5k down. I get to the finance office and somehow after taxes and fees the financing amount was 23k. They tried to say the finance company required an extended warranty. I pointed out that they didn't include my down payment, the discount price and the warranty was like $800. The finance company they chose had an interest rate of 24%. I didn't have bad credit just not a lot of good credit. I called my bank and got 8% with no warranty required, made them rerun the numbers and financed less than 11k. That was my introduction to car salesmen.

 

[Timo]

I don't think he was so much accusing you of anything, just that a no-nonsense attitude works best with dealers that are willing to return it. If that's how you are, and you get that kinda response, I mean, red flag it and move on. To a degree I kinda assume this thread is about making fun of these tactics, more so than crying about it happening, no?

I didn't take offense or think it was aimed at me. He was giving his thoughts and experiences. And its definitely about making fun of these kinds of tactics.

 

[Malcolm Robertson]

I'm a former Ford salesman, and as such I think I can clear a couple things up. I've seen some posts of some skeevy stuff, and (without knowing the state's laws or the dealership) this one doesn't seem all that bad.

If they seem more interested in financing it's because they are. Dealers work at incredibly low margins, especially on new vehicles, and often sell for a loss. They make that up in financing.

Most salesman would rather sell a used vehicle than a new one because there are higher profit margins on used cars. In fact, new cars are almost always minimum commission. There are exceptions like custom lifted trucks, but usually the better profit margins lie in used vehicles which would also explain why they might seem more interested in a trade-in because that vehicle is where they'll make the money.

This is also the reason you have some addons of varying worth. I don't know what the taxable and non-taxable fees comprise in the state you saw this, but ask for a more detailed explanation. I imagine the fees including processing. That's not as unreasonable as most people think since the MSRP doesn't take into account the need for people to get the titles to their vehicles.

I've got no idea what the pro-pack is, but it's likely something you can tell them to leave off. The Ikon anti-theft might be worth it depending on what it is. In my dealership, we sold Data Dots anti-theft, and I spent the extra on it when I bought my Bronco without hesitation because I believed in the product.

Don't get me wrong. They could be crooks, but I'm not seeing anything that triggers alarm bells for me. Honestly, the best way to judge is to look at the Google and Yelp reviews. That will give you a sense of how honest they are.

 

[AZ_Craig]

I still think the 500.00 catalytic converter engraving on an all electric Lightning is the ultimate low add on.

Hey, Kia keeps sending me oil change coupons for my EV6. Apparently the manufacturers are as stupid as the dealerships!

 

[Agswin]

Best way to avoid all that is to communicate through email only. I buy about a car every year; I can't remember the last time I went into a dealership without having the deal finalized over email. Last 4 transactions.

1. Built and ordered 2024 Cayenne Turbo GT through email in So Cal. Car delivered by transport, paperwork done via Fedex.
2. Traded Porsche into a Dallas GMC dealer for a used Denali truck. Quote for Porsche trade done through email/video. Buyers order done through email. Drove up, traded Porsche for a truck and a check in 20 min
3. Found TRX online, secured price through email. Drive down and did trade in 30 min. Walked into finance and told them I keep my cars 8-12 months, don't want any add ons, I need to get on the road before traffic
4. Emailed Grainger in Iowa and ordered a 2025 Heritage edition at 4% below invoice, got paperwork, signed and sent them $1000 deposit.

It really isn't that hard especially when it is a buyers market. Just go on Auto Trader and find the build you want and email all 20 dealers. They will weed themselves out quickly, just be prepared to pay $1000-$1500 for transport from out of state.

Sidenote regarding anti-theft. They are all a complete joke. 90% of the time your truck is going to get stolen, it is heading to Mexico immediately and anti-theft or vehicle tracking won't help you. The other 10%, some meth head or gang banger will smoke weed, crack or take a shit in the backseat within an hour. I don't want my vehicle back, that is what insurance is for. I had it forced on me a few years ago on a Ram (sellers' market, took what I could get). Truck was stolen and across the border by the time I could get anyone from the tracking company to call me back. $1500 down the tube and won't ever pay for it again. In fact, if it has LoJack on it, I don't want it, even if it is free.

 

[Malcolm Robertson]

Sidenote regarding anti-theft. They are all a complete joke. 90% of the time your truck is going to get stolen, it is heading to Mexico immediately and anti-theft or vehicle tracking won't help you.

This depends on the benefit they offer. Data Dots guaranteed they'd pay you $5000 in addition to whatever your insurance paid you if the vehicle wasn't recovered in thirty days. One of my managers had his F-150 stolen from his driveway. The miscreants took it to an abandoned field, stole the tires, and then burned it to the ground. My manager got a check from Data Dots before his insurance paid out. Seeing how the product worked with someone I knew made it an easy sell.

No anti-theft solution is going to cover every scenario, but learning how they work, and what they cover can decide if they're worth rolling up with the cost of your vehicle.

 

[Timo]

I'm a former Ford salesman, and as such I think I can clear a couple things up. I've seen some posts of some skeevy stuff, and (without knowing the state's laws or the dealership) this one doesn't seem all that bad.

If they seem more interested in financing it's because they are. Dealers work at incredibly low margins, especially on new vehicles, and often sell for a loss. They make that up in financing.

Most salesman would rather sell a used vehicle than a new one because there are higher profit margins on used cars. In fact, new cars are almost always minimum commission. There are exceptions like custom lifted trucks, but usually the better profit margins lie in used vehicles which would also explain why they might seem more interested in a trade-in because that vehicle is where they'll make the money.

This is also the reason you have some addons of varying worth. I don't know what the taxable and non-taxable fees comprise in the state you saw this, but ask for a more detailed explanation. I imagine the fees including processing. That's not as unreasonable as most people think since the MSRP doesn't take into account the need for people to get the titles to their vehicles.

I've got no idea what the pro-pack is, but it's likely something you can tell them to leave off. The Ikon anti-theft might be worth it depending on what it is. In my dealership, we sold Data Dots anti-theft, and I spent the extra on it when I bought my Bronco without hesitation because I believed in the product.

Don't get me wrong. They could be crooks, but I'm not seeing anything that triggers alarm bells for me. Honestly, the best way to judge is to look at the Google and Yelp reviews. That will give you a sense of how honest they are.

The financing issue was with my 1st car purchase over 20 years ago. 24% vs 8% is a huge difference. On my Raptor inquiry i specifically asked upfront about any dealer add ons and was told there were none. My problem with the fees is that its a way to make money for them and not necessarily what the customer wants or needs. In most cases, the anti theft isn't going to do much more than what came from the factory. And to advertise a price and raise it 10k when a possible customer inquires about a car is not how you win a sale. I understand local and regional discount may not apply but they lowered their own discount as well. I see red flags and chose not to purchase since i can go to a dealer near me for that price. I don't know if they are crooks which is why i didn't post the dealer name, but it was shady.

 

[Agswin]

This depends on the benefit they offer. Data Dots guaranteed they'd pay you $5000 in addition to whatever your insurance paid you if the vehicle wasn't recovered in thirty days. One of my managers had his F-150 stolen from his driveway. The miscreants took it to an abandoned field, stole the tires, and then burned it to the ground. My manager got a check from Data Dots before his insurance paid out. Seeing how the product worked with someone I knew made it an easy sell.

No anti-theft solution is going to cover every scenario, but learning how they work, and what they cover can decide if they're worth rolling up with the cost of your vehicle.

Data dots isn't anti-theft. It is a way to identify your vehicle, after is has been stolen. If you think a sticker that says "this car is equipped with data dots" will deter a thief, then you should buy it. For everyone else, it is a 3rd party added insurance that most likely has a laundry list of exclusions and fine print.

 

[Sgt Badlands]

Nobody should be surprised by this. Dealers are not there to give you a good deal. They are there to make money. No matter what people think they are never getting some great deal from the dealer.

 

[LcplScary]

I've found the best way to prevent that nonsense is to walk in and tell the salesman upfront, I know what I want, I've been shopping it around and another dealer just tried to get me for thousands of dollars of dealer add-ons so I walked out.

If you can sell me this model with no extras, at this price, I'll buy it.

I've done this multiple times and it has worked at some dealers. Others will not flex on their add-ons, that's when I walk.

The idea is to be well informed, know what you want, and make it very transactional. Don't waste their time, and demand it in return.

If you're going to be a tire kicker for hours before you buy, they actually deserve to take more of your money.

As a side note, my last 5 vehicles all came with wheel locks they did not charge me for. And my Bronco has Nitrogen labeled valve covers, so I assume they were filled that way, not really sure, wasn't on the bill.

This right here. First dealership I went to said "Well that's before taxes and add ons, but I'm sure we'll be able to get you in it today." Nope.

Second dealer was honest, "That Bronco is at one of our Sister locations and we can't get it until tomorrow. But if you want to do the initial paperwork we'll have it here by Noon, ready to drive."

And that's how I got a roof rack, hoop step and block heater I didn't pay for. When it came in with the add ons, they knew trying to bump the price would be a deal breaker as I was bringing a cashiers check for the OTD we agreed to.

 

[Timo]

Hey, Kia keeps sending me oil change coupons for my EV6. Apparently the manufacturers are as stupid as the dealerships!

They figure you'll take them up on it since it's such a great deal.

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