Mike Levine saying outright he does NOT care about Granger/Chapman/SAC

[usarms]

Ah, so Nissan created an ad campaign to officially launch the vehicle that featured a reservation system. Hyped it to the moon on a first come, first served bases. the absolute backbone of the launch, a plan so clear that people crashed the system because they understood they could be first in line? Then Nissan additionally told people that all the 300Zx cars reserved (that NIssan kept accepting until there were almost 2 years worth of possible orders), and that they would be built before anyone else got on, creating a guarantee of exclusivity?

Then they gave away dealer priority orders, VIP orders, and the like?

Then completely abandoned the practice of building them before stock orders, still claiming they would, except of course for dealers who weren't in the good old boy's club and they and their customers deserve to be punished for being so uppity as to think Ford would adhere to the rules they set. It is like just about every politician ever.

So you've been there and done that? Really?


Not a rhetorical question; Ford chose to make the statements they did, got the big PR boost from the launch numbers, reaped all the benefits from people believing their puffery, and now are shocked (not just indifferent, but hostile) that folks are unhappy they are not following through on the deal. Why did Ford decide to make smaller dealers pay the price for Ford's decision to take all those reservations (they could have ended them at any time after the first day) then change the rules of their game to avoid holding up their end of the deal once they got the PR benefits of a reservation launch?

I don't know what world you're in but that never happened with the 300ZX.

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[Lurking4luv]

CARBUZZ.com just posted the story.

 

[PC Austin]

Ok

As a Ford stockholder that is some very disturbing news to say the least. Do you have a link so I can verify that statistic?

Good question. It's much easier to put $100 dollars down then to spend $60K. I'm guessing most users are going to struggle with closing the deal. So I wouldn't be surprised if at least 50% abandon their broncos at the dealer. It becomes a 2 year window shopping experience where they get to pick out the dream Bronco, have it made and then change their mind.

 

[Drex]

I don't know what world you're in but that never happened with the 300ZX.

I am in a a World where you were emphatic that you had seen all this before with the launch of the 300ZX, so I was posing a set of rhetorical questions in an attempt to show you that, no, you had not seen this scenerio before and that your implied claim that people should have known better was based on a false equivalency. I apologize if it went over your head.

 

[GoTigersGoBronco]

As a Ford stockholder that is some very disturbing news to say the least. Do you have a link so I can verify that statistic?

Ford reported about 125,000 Bronco orders.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/b...ers-waiting-until-2022-get-theirs/6999132002/

The conjecture from Detroit News and/or others has been that about 180,000-230,000 reservations were placed. On the high end, you'd look at about a 70% rate down to about a 54% conversion rate of reservations to orders.

A lot of those orders are ones that dealers placed without consent from the customer. The 2021 allocation formula was partially based on conversions so dealers had an incentive to convert every single order.

If the reservation conversion rate is 65%, it does not take a lot of orphan orders to push the overall number down under 50%. A lot of those reservation holders did not in fact order a Bronco.

I fully expect that most reservations holders did so because it was the "thing to do" and they will not ultimately purchase a Bronco. The longer the process takes, the more buyers will be lost to boredom and competitors.

 

[Drex]

Reservation programs and allocation programs are mutually exclusive. There is no argument that I am aware of on that fact. It is just a matter of time until Ford dismantles the other reservation programs by choosing to destroy it by adding allocations. This will spread.

 

[Dads_bronze_bronco]

LOL... right in your post at the very top "Bronco Timing UPDATE".

They altered their original statements on how these would be rolled out multiple times since inception. Ford said nothing about pushing reservation holders out to MY2025 due to their ever changing policy. In doing so, they've trapped their beloved reservation holders who they say they care about.

edit: The update was well after the summer reservation period and the October Granger promo. How could anyone have predicted Ford would move the goalposts multiple times on them? Ford was nearly as transparent as they should've been about the whole mess. Keep defending them though. Good luck to you.

I am not defending Ford. Would not even be buying a Bronco right now, after all the delays and quality concerns if it weren't for all the good memories of the adventures in my Dad's 1970. I'd be buying another Jeep.

I am simply pointing out that Ford had moved the goalposts several times by the time we ordered. Granger doubled down with the October deal to try to drive more 2021 allocations at the risk of what exactly is happening now. And despite information like Levine saying 2021 Broncos would all be customer orders before dealer stock, and informing people officially that timing of their order depends on "the number of Broncos your dealer will recieve", they decided to order from a very nice/informative dealer who had 4x the number of reservations as many large dealers.

Internet outrage about something that was so obviously going to happen - this train wreck was going to happen, and the October Granger deal pretty much guaranteed it - is really ... well, people should have known and expected this outcome, just like many others on here did, and decided to order elsewhere or accept this exact risk.

Maybe it makes me a troll in this instance, but jeez, when they really sit down and think about it: what did people really expect was going to happen with that many orders at one dealer?

 

[niterider006]

Wait, you're an economist and you don't realize that a dealer doesn't get shipped orders that they cancel? Ok...very simply then: If Granger cancels orders in the next two years, they don't still show up in 2024. I'm guessing you're not a PhD?

Wow, no need to be obnoxious about it. I am not aware of how the ordering process works. In fact, I haven't even placed an order yet with any dealer. Not sure why you felt the need to insult me. I bet you're fun at parties.

 

[1975U15]

I don't know what world you're in but that never happened with the 300ZX.

 

[JimmyDean]

This entire thing is an excuse by Ford to cover up the fact they can’t meet the order/ reservation builds and placate the big dealers who are crying over not being able to have stock Broncos on their lots in the numbers they want. Dealer allocations are for stock or special editions. Customer orders have NEVER been incorporated in dealer allotment. Dealers request a certain number of F 150 trucks. Ford tells them “ in order to get the F 150 allotment, you will need to accept 20 Escapes, 25 Explorers, and 30 Mustangs”. Dealer agrees. The dealer has fifty F 150 trucks on the lot. I want one, but they don’t have an F 150 that meets my needs. So I place an order. No problem. Broncos were ALL customer orders, NOT dealer allotments. They are not “ special editions, ex: GT 500, MACH 1”. This allotment ruling is nothing but a scam. Shame on Ford.

as far as I am aware, for customer order Mach 1s, they are not being 'allocated' either. Granger is by far the largest M1 dealer in the country. They've sold it looks like maybe 2%+ of the M1s in the country, maybe more.

@Zach@Granger are they restricting y'alls M1s?

 

[Dads_bronze_bronco]

Just because they, legally, can reallocate all orders any way they like, doesn't mean that they're keeping the spirit of the promise that they made over and over again to prioritize reservation timestamps as best they could when fulfilling orders. Would you be making this argument if they were only going to fulfill all orders in a particular state first, if they fulfill orders for dealers in alphabetical order, or any other random process they choose?

At the time of the email you reference everyone knew that Ford couldn't reasonably build over 100,000 orders overnight and that it wouldn't be efficient for them to produce in exact timestamp order. They added these qualifications to acknowledge that, but emphasized the importance of timestamp, even in the paragraph you're referencing.

It is not revisionist to acknowledge that qualifications on their promise to fulfill reservations in timestamp order were made for this reason.

They certainly CAN do whatever they like. That doesn't make it honest, and it doesn't mean that it's in line with what they promised in the first place.

I think as a fact, you and I can probably agree that this change in allocation shows that they're willing to prioritize large dealers' profits over their brand in the eyes of many enthusiasts. Broncos are scarce and they can choose to let those dealers reap higher profits at my expense, instead of prioritizing timestamp order in the same way that they did for MY21. Otherwise, why did they change allocation for MY22 at all?

This leaves enthusiasts like me with different options and incentives. Many of us will exercise those options.

Yep, I agree. I also agree most of what they've done

• 2021 and 2022 allocation methodology
• removing XPlan after publicly saying XPlan covers all but FE
• priority orders
• slipping form 80% to 60% customer verified deliveries
• informing us some dealer inventory for BB and Base 4 door soft tops will happen

has been contrary to the spirit at which they set out with the consumer reservation system, and in the favor of the most influential of their real customers, the dealers.

and it sucks.

 

[usarms]

My Ford stock doubled. They simply can’t make cars fast enough. It’s not just the auto makers but there are many mfg and logistic issued globally. Everyone cant be 1st.

I am in a a World where you were emphatic that you had seen all this before with the launch of the 300ZX, so I was posing a set of rhetorical questions in an attempt to show you that, no, you had not seen this scenerio before and that your implied claim that people should have known better was based on a false equivalency. I apologize if it went over your head.

After 40 years as a salespersaon, manager and owner of a dealership nothing goes over my head. Some people would rather bitch than face facts. It's not going to change and the facts are that a dealer may sell at whatever markup they feel they can get. Furhermore allocations are not based on wishes just solid sales coverage numbers within your region. If Ford's allocation system isn't up to your standards you should buy something else instead of making erroneous statements you have no clue about. I worked for Ford, Lincoln, Audi, Porsche, Infiniti, BMW and others and they all worked the same way. The only time I have seen allocations increased without sales is when a dealer does a facility upgrade at the cost of millions of dollars then they may get a few extra hot products other than that it is strictly a numbers game.

 

[tritonx100]

In case anyone's been waiting for an answer:
@mrlevine Fill your Bronco reservation orders ahead of allocations. We’ve already waited 15 months. Stop punishing your customers. #reservationsoverallocations
His answer tells me they just don't care.

in case he deletes his tweet, here's what it says:

Mike Levine
Replying to @robtraut and @KogodBiz
That’s exactly the plan for more than 98% of customers that didn’t place orders with a small dealer that created a special deal to attract a large number of orders.

he didn't say he doesn't care. He literally said we are taking care of our top sellers. I applaud grainger for their customer focus. However, my guess is the big dealers all complained to ford about the deals and to keep the top sellers happy they changed the allocation formula. Lets be fair, the first formula was pretty stupid and honestly they never truly followed it anyways.

 

[dingle87]

I am not defending Ford. Would not even be buying a Bronco right now, after all the delays and quality concerns if it weren't for all the good memories of the adventures in my Dad's 1970. I'd be buying another Jeep.

I am simply pointing out that Ford had moved the goalposts several times by the time we ordered. Granger doubled down with the October deal to try to drive more 2021 allocations at the risk of what exactly is happening now. And despite information like Levine saying 2021 Broncos would all be customer orders before dealer stock, and informing people officially that timing of their order depends on "the number of Broncos your dealer will recieve", they decided to order from a very nice/informative dealer who had 4x the number of reservations as many large dealers.

Internet outrage about something that was so obviously going to happen - this train wreck was going to happen, and the October Granger deal pretty much guaranteed it - is really ... well, people should have known and expected this outcome, just like many others on here did, and decided to order elsewhere or accept this exact risk.

Maybe it makes me a troll in this instance, but jeez, when they really sit down and think about it: what did people really expect was going to happen with that many orders at one dealer?

Well, thanks Dad for the talk. Did I do anything right in your eyes being attracted to the Ford Bronco? I grew up with my dad teaching me how to shift 3 on the tree in a Gen1 1966 half cab at the age of 7. I know all about good memories. How was I supposed to see the writing on the wall in all of this? How was a consumer supposed to conclude that Ford would move the goalposts so many times, that a volume based production vehicle, would result in a reservation holder from 2020 to get a mass produced vehicle in 2024/2025? Yes hindsight is 20/20, but one could also expect that a mass produced vehicle wouldn't get delayed, on a reservation system indirectly touted to compete with Tesla, until 2024/2025. What they project as full production will cover all the "real" reservations easily. We all know there are place holder/ghost reservations with zero intention or reservations held by dealerships.

I figured Ford (reservation system) was them transitioning (attempting to transition) from the archaic old school allocation system to something new. They sold it as get in line. So I did. I got in line, I didn't expect Ford and all their lawyers to bow down and kiss the ring of the archaic allotment system like they did. You're telling me they didn't consider this possibility and how it could legally impact their reservation system? More egg on the face of Ford.

All Ford had to do was bluntly say in November 2020, "If your dealer has more than X amount of Bronco Reservations, then you will be waiting until at least 2023 to take possession of your Bronco". They didn't. They strung it along 18 months. Why?

What is done is done. We'll all figure out our options and make the best decisions for ourselves. You included. Good luck and enjoy your Bronco when you get it.

 

[hemiblas]

@dingle87 there is revisionist history at work here from people who knowingly ordered from a dealer with 1200 reservations.



"and the number of vehicles your dealer will receive."

*Uploads an email from December

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