Mike Levine saying outright he does NOT care about Granger/Chapman/SAC

[Atomicdog]

There is some truth, but I'm not about to hunt through threads to find it. Dealer got mad at me for pointing it out and told me to mind my own business.

You are saying that Granger or Chapman got mad at you and told you to mind your own business? And that you won't link to it?
Ok then.

Sponsored

 

[Palerider]

I made a comment months ago about how Granger was never going to be able to fill their orders for years to come and they should come out and tell their disciples the reality of the numbers.

I WAS ROASTED, ROASTED on this site from a few arrogant and nasty Grangerites. My comments were actually removed because I was arguing this exact scenario that is playing out right now.

Maybe this comment will be removed also. I learned you cant question a site sponsor, even if its true.

Good luck everyone!

Brock,
Granger reservist here. Bear with me, long story.

Timeline;

Ford enthusiast predicts the reincarnation of the bronco and starts enthusiast forum years ago.

July 2020, Ford introduces new bronco;
Says; reserve bronco, choose any dealer, some day you get a new bronco, based on timestamp of reservation. Bunches of people respond. Ford overwhelmed with reservations. Ford realizes that even if they were at peak 2021 production of 10k units/month, can't deliver all the possible orders for 2021. The dreaded word "allocation" surfaces Fall 2020.

And then this;
2021, Ford says order your broncos; move your reservation if you choose, cut a deal with whomever you choose. But be aware, Ford can't manufacture in 2021 the quantity of broncos they had forecast. Parts constraints, bad tops, chip shortages, and bug problems; uh oh! The 60K+ broncos they were hoping to deliver in 2021 wasn't going to happen.

No big deal. Enthusiasts were willing to wait. We were patient. We understood; Ford had to divvy up the 2021 broncos as best they could; and this thing called allocation kept coming up. Posters explained it all, Zach at Granger was right up front to tell us--some of us would have to wait till 2022. Bronco was a hot commodity in limited supply. We understood. No big deal.

WHY? Because I, and most of us, figured Ford would get the supply constraints, manufacturing hurdles, and other roadblocks figured out by 2022----and Ford would be humming along at 10k broncos/month, 120k/year, enough to satiate all the ordered reservations. We were patient. We knew we would get our broncos in 2022.

We believed Ford when they said they would make them in timestamp order, as constraints allowed. We knew they were short for 2021. We understood not everyone was getting a 2021 bronco. But if they mfg 120k broncos in 2022, why would allocation even be part of the equation? Ford could manufacture all of the reserved/ordered broncos--and deliver them in 2022---to whomever we placed our order to--like Granger.

As all of that was going on; this was going on:

Bronco enthusiasts, and others*, flock to bronco forum site to share information, to meet other "enthusiasts", and to participate in the "new bronco community" created.

If you look at posts from North7 and Zachdanger, and others, they provided a vast amount of very useful information--to bronco forum members; both enthusiasts and non-enthusiasts, but all of whom benefitted from their contributions. That is what the forum does for us.

Does anyone care about that? Maybe most do not...but a few us do, and we greatly appreciate posters' contributions to "our community forum". That is why they do this--for nothing, except the satisfaction of having enriched our knowledge--to the "family" of bronco enthusiasts. Hint; there is that un-dread word "family".

Some vendors and dealers see the bronco forum and seek to expand their business by becoming members on the forum, some offering product discounts, reasonable pricing, and a promise of being honest in their dealings with forum members. A salesman named Albert Schmitz from Granger Ford, in Iowa, jumped into this enthusiast community, with offers of low pricing and honest dealings. That seemed very attractive to some forum members. So many of us went with Granger, and not simply because of price.

I have purchased more new mobiles than the vast majority of forum members. Integrity matters. Yes, I am old school, where a company, or a person's word is their promise. Some of us forum members came to appreciate Albert, Zach, and Granger, and viewed them as "forum family members". These were real people, real enthusiasts (both Albert and Zach have broncos on order), at a dealership laying it on the line; and I was certain of that trust.

When Albert passed away, many of us were quite saddened, and yes, I contributed in Albert's name, anonymously, to the local fire dept that Albert's family designated; as did many other forum members (thank you). Strangers don't do things like that. Zach delivered Albert's eulogy. Zach is Albert's boss--and his family asked Zach to do this. How many people on this forum believe their boss is going to deliver their eulogy? Honest people do things like that.

If you believe none of the above matters, or is not connected, or is not relevant to the situation, then perhaps you are on the wrong forum. And will never understand what is occurring.

Several really intelligent posters have schooled us on how they knew this Granger deal wouldn't work, and they showed us how expert they were in their knowledge of the dread word "allocation", and how they predicted Ford could not, then later would not, deliver broncos in TIME STAMP ORDER, to ANY DEALER YOU CHOOSE.

Congratulations to your predictions, knowledge, brilliance, and our enlightenment. Can I borrow that crystal ball? I had no idea that I would be getting my 2020 reserved and 2021 ordered bronco in 2024-5, because I have like #1100 order in at Granger (I want that emerald green bronco with white wheels, white top, white grill, red grill letters, and stripe graphics!!!)

Yes, several posters blame us; because we made the choice to reserve a bronco, then order a bronco from a dealer of our choice, and then we waited patiently (yes--kicking and screaming) while Ford worked out its manufacturing issues; and we understood that 2021 was a very challenging year for Ford, and even more challenging for bronco enthusiasts chomping at the bit to get their ride. But we knew the end game---be patient; Ford will deliver your bronco.

We understood the 2021 build restrictions...er, allocations were necessary; 2022 ?? not so much. I for one believed 2021 was a fluke, and that 2022 would be our deliverance. If Ford could build 120k broncos in 2022, then build ours!

But, no matter how some spin this, what Ford did with 2022 allocations was antithetical to their original promise, and plain wrong. The honest players in this melee are Granger, and the real bronco enthusiasts. I get it. Many users are just that, and could care less about the forum, about relationships, about something other than themselves--welcome to the species! Haters, told-you-so, and know-it-alls; thank you for your contributions to the forum. It all matters.

Lastly, why would any negative poster of this situation believe they can just take potshots at Granger, or forum members who chose Granger? What part of "family" is misunderstood?
Bruce

 

[1975U15]

I've been having these same thoughts all throughout this situation. It always sounded too good to be true as far as the pricing and allocations these dealers were getting that anyone could jump in on. The pendulum always swings farthest before it goes the other way and this seems to be the far end with what ford intended. The original Ford allocation model probably didn't factor in a small dealer taking advantage of and exploiting a model through discounts to get a dramatically different allocation than expected with their size. I also don't know or think the dealer understood the risk of ford changing the model with the game they were playing. The fact that people are so surprised is what's most surprising.

Right. Because corporate elites lying should be accepted as a fact of life nowadays.

 

[BadSquatch21]

Right. Because corporate elites lying should be accepted as a fact of life nowadays.

Exactly what i meant . But if you knew corporates elites always lie anyway, why are you surprised?

 

[Incommunicado]

I mentioned this in a thread the other day, but I don't see anyone else talking about how the Grangers/Chapman/SAC should of really been telling their customers that there was risk in signing up with them. They've been around for a long time and understand how the dealer systems work so there is no way that they didn't think there was risk with this.

The old saying "It seems to good to be true" holds pretty strongly here, like how did everyone that ordered with these dealers think that they would get their vehicles quickly and that there was no risk. Even if they kept the old allocation model for this year (which they never said they would when they released lasts years) there would probably still be lots of people waiting because they line is so long.

Everyone keeps saying that these dealers have been the only ones being 100% honest with them, yet I don't think the dealers have been informing their customers that their sales technique probably had a lot of risk in it.

I know some people will jump in here and say that this process is new so there is no way they could of known, but that's just false, these dealers took a risk offering these massive sales so that they could sell a shit ton of vehicles in the name of "being fair to the customer".

Does it suck for all of the customers at these dealers, absolutely. Am I supporting Ford in how they are handling it, no. Does it suck that these dealers sales technique didn't pay off, yeah, but high risk comes with high reward. I just don't see how so many people didn't see this coming.

You really don’t know much but don’t let that stop you from giving an opinion. Go to Stephens site and read all the clear cut info they gave… and find any big Ford dealer that is that up front in writing. I went to several and they all played games. There was an allocation system and Ford changed it mid-play. If you’re saying it was foreseeable that Ford would fold on it’s own processes and word to dealers and customers, than that’s saying something too.

 

[Bronc-O]

First, add a 3rd shift, second, look at my previous post.

How can they add a 3rd shift if they are working 2 twelve hour shifts?

 

[North7]

The saddest part is Ford is giving themselves a black eye by trying to punish 2-3 dealerships for following Ford's rules.

Ford needed to stay out of the mud in this and just stick to their original plan. The orders would have sorted themselves out.

Maybe 40% (being generous) of the first 3000 filled-orders would have been to 2 dealerships - but the customers would not have had a problem with that - because we all knew the rules.

People from all over the country have orders there so the Bronco would have been showing up, in the hands of enthusiasts, in a lot of different states.

Plus, all the other customers that DIDN'T go the above route would be getting theirs, too - just adding to the excitement. I stayed local, in Florida, but my dealership is small (initial allocation was 18, cut to like 6).

But, instead, Ford agreed that Galpin Ford in Southern California and Suburban Ford in Michigan needed more Broncos in one area than they had orders for - and needed other customers to be unhappy as they got sent to the back of a line and even others getting upcharged for the privilege of buying something they were selling.

It was an interesting decision process - because it isn't like the mega-dealers weren't getting Broncos or orders - they just wanted more than a small dealer was getting.

Ford messed up and there are a lot of people who have had their opinions changed about the company - and not in a good way.

But I'm glad Ford is doubling down on their misstep. Nothing says quality like refusing to acknowledge and learn from a mistake...

I am excited about the Bronco but it will be the last Ford I ever buy - and when my children (20 & 17) talk to me about buying a new car, I definitely won't recommend Ford and would suggest they cross-shop other brands.

Ford isn't trustworthy. Glad I don't own any of their stock (almost did during the height of the pandemic)...

Ford has successfully dug the same hole Jeep put themselves in five to ten years ago.

 

[ekim]

I just did a search: How many Ford locations are there in the United States in 2021? There are 3,005 Ford locations in the United States as of September 28, 2021.

On this site it says 700-800 per day when 75% are Bronco, but we know that hasn't happen, so if they produce 10,000 -15,000 per month depending on the supply chain how many have been produced to date?

Let's for easy math sake, say it's 60,000 to date... I don't think they even got there yet (give me the real numbers if you have them). But for simple math, that's only an average of 20 units per dealer, there is no way a larger dealer with a great deal of lobbying power and money is going to let smaller dealers take any of their allotment. Ford may be taking the hit publicly wise, but in reality it's those dealers that are forcing Ford to shut down Garger's pipeline of what they think is their allotment due to Garger using the reservations system to sell units that they didn't already have, own or have any control over.

Ganger would need 40 units a week to fill 800 reservations in a year, that's full time job at a large metro dealer, did they really think a truck was going to show up at their dealership every day with Broncos while driving by every other dealer screaming for units?

This is a good analysis. The problem with it, from my perspective, is that it does not have any incentives to reward "good" dealers. Also the notion of a "sold" unit vs that of a showroom unit needs to be addressed. A sold unit should be be more important than a "floor" unit if you are customer focused. A sold unit represents a specific actual happy customer while a floor unit represents the possibility of some future happy customer... This analysis seems to be all about dealers and not customers. Even if Ford disagrees, my opinion is that the end customers are who need to be taken care of.

So let's say Ford can produce 100,000 Broncos per year. Also lets say dealers are doing good and have sold 150,00. Let's also say that my local dealer sold ZERO because they are so poor at selling. Let's also say that Grainger sold 1,500 units. Grainger sold 1% (1500/150000) of all units sold. Given that Ford can only make 100,000, Grainger gets 1% of the overall run (1,000). My local dealer, who did little to no work, and could not make a single customer commit to a deal gets nothing. So Grainger gets to deliver about 1,000 of the 1,500 units they sold. All the other dealers that actually sold a unit get a percentage of production runs based on their percentage of overall sales as well.

This rewards dealers for doing good work and encourages them to win customers over with reasonable pricing and service. It also addressed how to deal with too many orders. Dealer get "allocated" based on how good they did in selling that model.

No dealer can "corner the market" either. There's a limit to how many units a dealer can prep and deliver. This includes, staffing, profit margins, customer satisfaction, etc.

I'm not saying my opinion is correct or better, just different.

 

[Pl8to]

I don't understand how pointing out expected reality somehow means that we somehow support that reality.

You really don’t know much but don’t let that stop you from giving an opinion. Go to Stephens site and read all the clear cut info they gave… and find any big Ford dealer that is that up front in writing. I went to several and they all played games. There was an allocation system and Ford changed it mid-play. If you’re saying it was foreseeable that Ford would fold on it’s own processes and word to dealers and customers, than that’s saying something too.

Why does everyone think you are attacking someone if you just point out that there was risk in that business model? All I'm saying is that there was risk and that any business attempting that model should of known that there was a lot of risk in it. If the dealers didn't know the risk was that high than they didn't really think it through and if they did know the risk was that high all I'm saying is that I hope that it was spelled out clearly to every customer that it was a risky endeavor to order from them.

I don't like that anyone isn't getting their Bronco's on time. The whole situation is a shitty pile of a mess. Is Ford messing up and going back on their word? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean that the previous statements aren't also true.

 

[Dvanderm]

I called Ford today to switch my reservation to Granger after reading the dozens of posts here. So while I wait for the 48-hour approval decision, I thought I would call my local dealer where my reservation is under. I said I made a reservation a while ago and wanted to convert it to an order now, here is the date, and here is trim, engine and top I would want. If I make an order now, can you give me an idea of what place/number I would be or a reasonable estimate on wait time?

Nothing. Just "hard to say, but come on in and we will build it and put the order in." So if Granger provides great service and honors the price, I don't care about waiting a little while extra or making a long road trip.

 

[PowPow]

Lots of reading in this one to catch up on. Anyone still defending this dirtbag?

I wouldn't call the dealers dirtbags. That's a bit much. They just took a risk that didn't pay off. They got got.

 

[Big Boss]

Can we just stop ragging on soft top big bends lol.

 

[1975U15]

Exactly what i meant . But if you knew corporates elites always lie anyway, why are you surprised?

Didn’t say I was surprised. It’s the fact folks like you accept it.

 

[Bronc-O]

You are saying that Granger or Chapman got mad at you and told you to mind your own business? And that you won't link to it?
Ok then.

It was in a massive Granger thread a year ago. If you've ever tried searching archives here, you'll know you may need to set aside a large block of time to do. I don't care about the point enough to do that. The Granger fan boy in you is just trying to push peoples buttons without any more to back up what you keep saying than the rest of us. Everyone is frustrated and just continues to aimlessly point fingers.

 

[Gamecock]

I wouldn't call the dealers dirtbags. That's a bit much. They just took a risk that didn't pay off. They got got.

He was talking about Levine...I think you are speaking of the mega-dealers that whined to Ford about being out-competed for reservations. I agree with both of you.

Sponsored