Here starts the dealer games

[WuNgUn]

What's the "Air Tax"? LOL. Some BS global warming crap?

Air conditioning... Back when freon and ozone holes where the climate fad of the day. Of course, now manufacturers don't use freon... But we still get taxed.

Sponsored

 

[King_Bronco0327]

Can’t wait for the death of the dealership model. I know there are a few good dealers out there, and I know it’s their livelihood and careers, but the bad dealers FAR outweigh the good ones.

Yeah the guy who got screwed should have confirmed price in a written document, but only a very small percentage of car buyers are even aware of ADM. And for someone who isn’t into cars or hasn’t purchased a really hot vehicle brand new or done a ton of research here would have no reasonable expectation that the dealership would be charging 150% of MSRP. Shitty behavior. I think in 50 years dealerships become just service centers/new vehicle storage and delivery hubs. Everything will be purchased direct from the manufacturer.

I’d say more like 5 years. One of the good things Tesla (and the electric car industry) brought us is being able to purchase online directly from the manufacturer.

 

[King_Bronco0327]

Economics 101:
*Its supply and demand........which means if you want it and can buy it, It's your personal prerogative.......but that also means you don't have to buy it.

Economics 101 (Post Internet age):
*Its supply and demand.......which means if you don't like the price you all over the internet and badmouth a person, company or organization like the've punched your sainted mother.

Get over it people.

Somebody take this guy’s order and lets see if he still bitches about eCoNimICs

 

[rugbysecondrow]

I don’t know why it’s hard for you to understand dealerships are their own entity. When Ford sent everybody the email, they were saying that they would not increase the manufactured suggested retail price on a vehicle. Typically every year on vehicles the prices are increased. They charge more for certain options and so forth. That’s what they were saying when they won’t raise MSRP. Now a dealership is free to charge what they want on the vehicles they sell there is no such thing as UPP(universal pricing policy) in vehicle sales. In other words if your bronco has ADM it’s your dealers fault. Now Ford could come out and say if excessive ADM is charged it could affect your allocations. Ask yourself this would you want to screw with someone making you millions of dollars?

I hear you, but that was clearly not the inference they wanted people to make.

Ford has a decision to make IF they want to move forward with their RSVP system (like will the Bronco, Lighting, Maverick, EV cars etc). If people place a RSVP, pay an RSVP on a vehicle, place an order with the dealer, then the MSRP should be the capped price. People will RSVP, order and wait for vehicles so long as there is trust and predictability in the process. If they allow dealers to play games, it is really going to discourage buyers from participating in this new sales model they are pushing.

Lastly, we are all operating on trust with the dealers. I don't think dealers will sign a sales contact for a vehicle that hasn't been produced or delivered. Anybody who says they have a sales contract, likely doesn't and a dealer could still change the pricing. I have an order document, with pricing, and I paid a deposit based on that amount, but I suppose it isnt legally binding and the dealer could still add fees I don't agree with. There is an amount of trust that has to occur in this process, and some dealers seem fine violating that trust. Ford has to decide if they will allow their dealers to function in a way that threatens their RSVP system and future business model.

 

[Compta38]

Its the truth . He is nice but the nice part is just selling strategy . In business there's no nice , just honest or dishonest . To realistically get an order fulfilled in 22 or 23 you have to find a dealer with allocations available and he won't be one. Order with nice and you'll refresh Ford ordering page for years to come

Dealers don't have their allocation numbers for 22/23. You have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[M&M Beer]

All the signed stuff is fine this person still had a verbal agreement with the dealership to order them a vehicle and then deliver the vehicle. The person that placed the order had to put down a $100.00 reservation fee and show identification that they place the order. This dealership may loose the right to sell Ford vehicles in the future if this infraction is true. There were specific rules that they had to follow to place each order for the Bronco and obvious that they didn't. I see a big lawsuit coming from the buyer and they might be not only getting Bronco but maybe a Ford dealership.

 

[Monster1926]

I hear you, but that was clearly not the inference they wanted people to make.

Ford has a decision to make IF they want to move forward with their RSVP system (like will the Bronco, Lighting, Maverick, EV cars etc). If people place a RSVP, pay an RSVP on a vehicle, place an order with the dealer, then the MSRP should be the capped price. People will RSVP, order and wait for vehicles so long as there is trust and predictability in the process. If they allow dealers to play games, it is really going to discourage buyers from participating in this new sales model they are pushing.

Lastly, we are all operating on trust with the dealers. I don't think dealers will sign a sales contact for a vehicle that hasn't been produced or delivered. Anybody who says they have a sales contract, likely doesn't and a dealer could still change the pricing. I have an order document, with pricing, and I paid a deposit based on that amount, but I suppose it is legally binding and the dealer could still add fees I don't agree with. There is an amount of trust that has to occur in this process, and some dealers seem fine violating that trust. Ford has to decide if they will allow their dealers to function in a way that threatens their RSVP system and future business model.

The MSRP is a capped price and that’s what Ford is saying they won’t raise for 2022. It’s not Ford charging ADM it’s the third party dealers charging it. I’ve purchased multiple vehicles out of state, they’ve all provided me with a purchase agreement which details selling price, dealer doc fee, taxes, title and license fee. That’s what I got when I ordered my bronco at my dealer and that’s what Ford instructed everyone to do to try to avoid this.

 

[Monster1926]

All the signed stuff is fine this person still had a verbal agreement with the dealership to order them a vehicle and then deliver the vehicle. The person that placed the order had to put down a $100.00 reservation fee and show identification that they place the order. This dealership may loose the right to sell Ford vehicles in the future if this infraction is true. There were specific rules that they had to follow to place each order for the Bronco and obvious that they didn't. I see a big lawsuit coming from the buyer and they might be not only getting Bronco but maybe a Ford dealership.

They won’t lose anything if there wasn’t a signed agreement in place.

 

[M&M Beer]

I hear you, but that was clearly not the inference they wanted people to make.

Ford has a decision to make IF they want to move forward with their RSVP system (like will the Bronco, Lighting, Maverick, EV cars etc). If people place a RSVP, pay an RSVP on a vehicle, place an order with the dealer, then the MSRP should be the capped price. People will RSVP, order and wait for vehicles so long as there is trust and predictability in the process. If they allow dealers to play games, it is really going to discourage buyers from participating in this new sales model they are pushing.

Lastly, we are all operating on trust with the dealers. I don't think dealers will sign a sales contact for a vehicle that hasn't been produced or delivered. Anybody who says they have a sales contract, likely doesn't and a dealer could still change the pricing. I have an order document, with pricing, and I paid a deposit based on that amount, but I suppose it is legally binding and the dealer could still add fees I don't agree with. There is an amount of trust that has to occur in this process, and some dealers seem fine violating that trust. Ford has to decide if they will allow their dealers to function in a way that threatens their RSVP system and future business model.

Well said we're buying a vehicle from Ford that hasn't even been built putting money down and getting a signed or verbal agreement. The dealership is still going to make money on the vehicle that we order how can they say who get to purchase the vehicle once it arrives. I can't understand what our world is coming to when a handshake is not binding anymore. It was when I was younger.

 

[Monster1926]

Well said we're buying a vehicle from Ford that hasn't even been built putting money down and getting a signed or verbal agreement. The dealership is still going to make money on the vehicle that we order how can they say who get to purchase the vehicle once it arrives. I can't understand what our world is coming to when a handshake is not binding anymore. It was when I was younger.

Your buyer a vehicle from a dealership who owns a Ford franchise. Your not purchasing anything directly from ford.

 

[rugbysecondrow]

The MSRP is a capped price and that’s what Ford is saying they won’t raise for 2022. It’s not Ford charging ADM it’s the third party dealers charging it. I’ve purchased multiple vehicles out of state, they’ve all provided me with a purchase agreement which details selling price, dealer doc fee, taxes, title and license fee. That’s what I got when I ordered my bronco at my dealer and that’s what Ford instructed everyone to do to try to avoid this.

Y'all keep repeating the same "ADM is not part of MSRP" statement, but consumers view this as bait and switch. If Ford says "price is X", and I rsvp. Then Ford and the dealer say "price is X", and I order. Then, if the dealer says " the price is really X + ADM", most consumers will think that is bullshit, even if technically legal.

The reality, unless I am wrong, nobody who has not taken possession of a Bronco has a contract for purchase. Until the dealer has the vehicle and the buyer hands over the $$$, any dealer can adjust their pricing. That fact undercuts the entire reservations system.

They won’t lose anything if there wasn’t a signed agreement in place.

What contract do you have in place that will force a dealer to sell you a product, or force a buyer to buy a product? If you can walk away from the deal, so too can the dealer and you do not have a contract, you have an agreement. Agreements require trust and honor to uphold.

 

[Al Cowlings]

Sure and Jackie Chiles is taking the case.

 

[rugbysecondrow]

This is the problem, people are *assuming* the dealer is agreeing to MSRP when they order, but these dealers are not. That's why we, and FoMoCo themselves, has been clear that buyers need to actually agree on the price at time of order.

You're right, you wont have a P&S agreement until the Bronco is there and the Certificate of Origin is in the hands of the dealership... but the lack of an actual Purchase and Sale does not prevent the ability for the buyer and the dealership to enter into an agreement (contract) regarding what the price will be when it comes time to sign the P&S.

Obviously, there may be some unknowns (like financing rate, etc), but that doesn't prevent anyone from entering into an agreement to pay MSRP.

It's when people assume, because the Ford.com website lists the "suggested" price, that the dealership will take Ford's suggestion on what they should charge.

There are TONS of people here on the forum who *do* have a legal agreement with their dealer on what the price will be... and in these cases, if the dealership does decide to surprise ADM the bronco at time of deliver, that is in fact illegal.

Granted, no police officer is going to arrest your salesperson, nor would it make the fight any easier... but it's something.

And here's a fun fact: Verbal contracts are still contracts... they're just not in writing, and therefore more difficult to prove.... but you can have a "verbal contract" that was discussed in emails back and forth, and through advertisements, and all that jazz... so while you didn't "sign on the line" with a ton of latin words preceding it... it's still easier to enforce.


I am in NO WAY defending what this dealership allegedly did... my only point is that:

1. Buyers can not assume anything
2. Verbal contracts are still contracts.

I don't know if what you say is factually and legally true, especially across all 50 states. I suspect not, but I could be wrong. I suspect the dealers are well versed in saying one thing to consumers while protecting themselves for additional fees in the future.

What I do know, If Ford and the dealer network play fast and loose with the reservation system and if it is seen as bait and switch, Ford will taint the rollout of future models via a similar process. if the dealer lead the buyers to believe the price is X, which they have done, and they then charge extra fees, that will be an large brand issue.

In short, I shouldn't need a fucking lawyer to order a car. If these games persist in the process, I will opt out of future orders (and I have an rsvp on the Lightening).

 

[okbob]

If the release and build would have been done properly and on schedule, and as it was presented to us by Ford over a year ago, would dealers still be on the ADM trend? One can come up with as many conspiracies as they want from this aspect........

 

[Heffe66413]

I've come to realize that dealerships don't like when things escalate in their showrooms when there are customers there. I'd make a scene

I’d make a scene until they had to call the police and then get arrested for trespassing. Once arrested call the local news about the story on how the dealer screwed you. That will get the dealers attention. Or just make a big sign- “ This dealer will screw you” and stand on the road outside the dealership on a Saturday. Sometimes - non legal methods are just as effective .

Sponsored