Mishimoto's Performance Intercooler R&D Thread

[Lèòn]

When are you guys having your presale? Im ready to make a move

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[Mishimoto]

When are you guys having your presale? Im ready to make a move

Hey @Lèòn - We are shooting for this week. I will keep you posted!

- John P

 

[Bronc69]

Hello Bronco6G!

I hope everyone had a WONDERFUL holiday season! We're back from our time off with a little bit of a belated Christmas present for you guys in the form of our final dyno data for our high-mount intercooler. We still have some time to go before we kick off our presale, but in the meantime, here's our latest blog post that goes over the performance:

High Road – 2021+ Ford Bronco Performance Intercooler R&D, Part 6 – 2.3L Dyno Testing

The engineers at Ford developed their latest and greatest Bronco for the high road, but the intercooler used across the lineup wasn't quite up to the task of wilderness exploration. Plus, we can think of plenty of better uses for the OEM intercooler's mounting location. So we told the OEM intercooler to take a hike and took our new design to the high road. It's been a long journey getting to the trailhead, but we're finally ready to start our dyno journey with our plucky 2.3L-powered Pedro taking point.

Our trip to the dyno brings us to our DynaPack system since the 7-speed manual plays nice with this kit. Locked into its RWD drive configuration and ready for torture testing, we started with our single power pulls. These tests hone into the primary aspects of our design that we're looking to compare. The first is the primary reason for upgrading your intercooler, heat dissipation. For this round of testing, we slot our Bronco into 4th gear, which is closest to a 1:1 gear ratio, and sweep the full rev range of that gear. Then, using our dyno fan to simulate road wind conditions, we log the difference in outlet temperatures through the rev range. This slice of heat dissipation gives us an indicator of how well the intercooler will perform on the road and trails. Specifically, when equipped to the stock-tuned 2.3L Bronco, we recorded a 21°F temperature drop in outlet temperatures over the OEM intercooler.

This test may give insight into how the intercooler performs in the real world, but we've also devised a test that simulates harsh driving conditions. We dubbed this test the heat soak test, and the idea is right in the name. The procedure is simple: we stack up to six back-to-back power pulls together with no cool-down period. The repeated heavy load on the vehicle provides a simulated driving condition that's harsher than most real-world conditions, butting this intercooler through its toughest test yet. The 2.3L EcoBoost did get fired up, topping intercooler inlet temperatures at approximately 250°F. Still, with our performance design installed, we were able to reduce outlet temperatures by 20°F when compared to the OEM design.

Charged air cooling is an intercooler's primary task, providing a solid base to build more power on any forced induction platform. Bolt-on power to a factory-tuned vehicle isn't expected, but it's often the beneficial side effect of improved flow and cooler air. Our design's benefit to the system did just that, and we recorded max power gains of 4.5HP and 10.8TQ on our stock tuned 2.3L Bronco.

The high road is rewarding but treacherous. With our latest intercooler design installed, these 2.3L-powered G.OA.T. machines can keep cool and even have a little extra grunt to make the journey even easier. Keep your eyes peeled for our presale launch coming soon, and of course, 2.3L is one of many on this journey, too. For those with the V6 option, make head over to our next post for the 2.7L's trip to the dyno.


Make sure that you keep your eyes peeled for our discounted presale coming soon! We're only a few weeks away!

-Nick

Couple of questions:
1. What were the sweep times? You said you ran them back to back six times under loaded conditions. Did you do any extended sweeps of several hours?
2. Any flow details of the intercooler vs. stock? I know you're making statements regarding factory construction and surface area.
3. What is your core style?
4. I'm not sure if I missed this, but what is the core size vs. stock?
5. Would you share the pressurized computational fluid dynamic (CFD) analysis?
6. In your six back-to-back dyno sweeps: How did that directly compare to the stock intercooler? I would imagine you'd run the exact same test to ensure there is an improvement. This would give you testing temperature data report.

TY!

 

[Lèòn]

Hey @Lèòn - We are shooting for this week. I will keep you posted!

- John P

Can't wait, now if only Spd Performance or @Fast Intentions Inc. could speed up their downpipes, I'd be all set as I'm planning on getting/installing all the performance parts (aside from catbacks) by june

 

[Mishimoto]

Couple of questions:
1. What were the sweep times? You said you ran them back to back six times under loaded conditions. Did you do any extended sweeps of several hours?
2. Any flow details of the intercooler vs. stock? I know you're making statements regarding factory construction and surface area.
3. What is your core style?
4. I'm not sure if I missed this, but what is the core size vs. stock?
5. Would you share the pressurized computational fluid dynamic (CFD) analysis?
6. In your six back-to-back dyno sweeps: How did that directly compare to the stock intercooler? I would imagine you'd run the exact same test to ensure there is an improvement. This would give you testing temperature data report.

TY!

Hey @Bronc69 - All great questions!

1. Roughly 8 seconds of full throttle, few seconds for the wheel speed to come back to zero, then run again and so on.
2. Our IC has about 1psi of additional pressure drop compared to OEM. Same outlet pressure, +1psi on intlet pressure.
3. Our core is bar and plate construction with cast tanks. OEM is tube and fine with plastic tanks.
4. +49% in core volume
5. Unfortunately, we cannot share this information publicly.
6. The Mishimoto intercooler reduced outlet air temperatures on the 2.3L Bronco by 21°F (11.6°C) and 15.5°F (8.8°C) on the 2.7L Bronco compared to the stock intercooler. This reduction in outlet temperature led to max power gains of 4.5 hp and 10.8 ft-lbs of torque on the 2.3L Bronco and 8.0 hp and 10.2 ft-lbs of torque on the 2.7L Bronco.

We have a comprehensive Engineering Report in it's final stages of prep before being ready for public consumption. Once it's ready, I will share it here.

In the meantime, here is a cool side-by-side shot:

- John P

 

[Bronc69]

Hey @Bronc69 - All great questions!

1. Roughly 8 seconds of full throttle, few seconds for the wheel speed to come back to zero, then run again and so on.
2. Our IC has about 1psi of additional pressure drop compared to OEM. Same outlet pressure, +1psi on intlet pressure.
3. Our core is bar and plate construction with cast tanks. OEM is tube and fine with plastic tanks.
4. +49% in core volume
5. Unfortunately, we cannot share this information publicly.
6. The Mishimoto intercooler reduced outlet air temperatures on the 2.3L Bronco by 21°F (11.6°C) and 15.5°F (8.8°C) on the 2.7L Bronco compared to the stock intercooler. This reduction in outlet temperature led to max power gains of 4.5 hp and 10.8 ft-lbs of torque on the 2.3L Bronco and 8.0 hp and 10.2 ft-lbs of torque on the 2.7L Bronco.

We have a comprehensive Engineering Report in it's final stages of prep before being ready for public consumption. Once it's ready, I will share it here.

In the meantime, here is a cool side-by-side shot:

- John P

TY for the response and details!

Did you do any extended sweep times and take readings at different RPMs to put together a full sweep?
Meaning, did you run at say 1500rpms for 2 minutes and then slowly increase through the rpm range and take readings every two minutes? This would recreate actual road use as no one ever runs their vehicle for 8 seconds and then shuts it off.
Not trying to be difficult, just wanted more real world experience. As operating temps change and level themselves out, the HP and TQ can change in real world driving.

I know it's a stupid question, but was the hood up or down during testing? Again, not able to drive with the hood up so testing it should be closed.

For question #5: This is the type of information I'm looking for as shown on APRs website. Scroll down about half-way and you'll see the details of the CFD analysis. Not sure why you wouldn't be able to share that information publicly. APR has a ton of competition making IC's for VWs. I actually had their entire Stage 3 setup on my GTI (made about 400hp/400tq from 2L) and it worked flawlessly.
https://www.goapr.com/products/engine_hardware/charge_air_coolers/air_to_air_coolers/parts/IC100019

Former engineer who looks closely at the details of everything I purchase.

 

[Lèòn]

TY for the response and details!

Did you do any extended sweep times and take readings at different RPMs to put together a full sweep?
Meaning, did you run at say 1500rpms for 2 minutes and then slowly increase through the rpm range and take readings every two minutes? This would recreate actual road use as no one ever runs their vehicle for 8 seconds and then shuts it off.
Not trying to be difficult, just wanted more real world experience. As operating temps change and level themselves out, the HP and TQ can change in real world driving.

I know it's a stupid question, but was the hood up or down during testing? Again, not able to drive with the hood up so testing it should be closed.

For question #5: This is the type of information I'm looking for as shown on APRs website. Scroll down about half-way and you'll see the details of the CFD analysis. Not sure why you wouldn't be able to share that information publicly. APR has a ton of competition making IC's for VWs. I actually had their entire Stage 3 setup on my GTI (made about 400hp/400tq from 2L) and it worked flawlessly.
https://www.goapr.com/products/engine_hardware/charge_air_coolers/air_to_air_coolers/parts/IC100019

Former engineer who looks closely at the details of everything I purchase.

Makes sense, and it ain't stupid, it's smart to ask.

Also kinda curious how the temps would be dailying, say driving half hour with some pulls, high speeds and cruising around

Got their black charge pipes inc, so figure that and an intercooler would be beastly. Still going with them

As far as VW, why APR vs Performance by IE or someone else? I'm stuck in the B7 days where JHmotorsports came in when everyone left and perfected things so ya only went with them, so while APR is solid, it's also not my initial first choice (though my Ex's Golf TSI [1.8t] really woke up with a st1 tune)

 

[Bronc69]

As far as VW, why APR vs Performance by IE or someone else? I'm stuck in the B7 days where JHmotorsports came in when everyone left and perfected things so ya only went with them, so while APR is solid, it's also not my initial first choice (though my Ex's Golf TSI [1.8t] really woke up with a st1 tune)

Basically I went with APR due to their size and budget they had to develop products. They spend a ton of time on R&D prior to releasing their products. I've seen other manufacturers release products and they had to make changes/updates to them almost immediately.
Plus, their tune didn't turn off the secondary O2 sensors and cause my car to fail emissions as other tunes do.
I like to purchase a full package that I know works well together rather than cobble something together and hope it works. I only have so much time and money and do NOT like doing things twice or just putting something on my car because it's new and may possibly improve it.

This intercooler is intriguing to me. On a daily basis, it could help the engine run cooler and help things last longer. Interested to see what details they come back with.

 

[Lèòn]

Basically I went with APR due to their size and budget they had to develop products. They spend a ton of time on R&D prior to releasing their products. I've seen other manufacturers release products and they had to make changes/updates to them almost immediately.
Plus, their tune didn't turn off the secondary O2 sensors and cause my car to fail emissions as other tunes do.
I like to purchase a full package that I know works well together rather than cobble something together and hope it works. I only have so much time and money and do NOT like doing things twice or just putting something on my car because it's new and may possibly improve it.

This intercooler is intriguing to me. On a daily basis, it could help the engine run cooler and help things last longer. Interested to see what details they come back with.

Gotcha

Need to update my blog, but as far as mods went (Performance, list would be longer otherwise)

Don the Audi:
JHM St2 tune w/High/Low Pressure fuel pumps (Due to fuel pumps, runs out of gas at a 1/4 tank) JHM High Flow Cat Downpipe+B7 S4 Fast intentions Catback (Quadtips)
JHM St1 Clutch/Aluminum Flywheel
ECS Tuning Luft-Technik Intake System
Optima Red Top Battery
Red Coil Packs
JHM Shift-Trio+Cross Rod
JHM Big Front Mounted intercooler
JHM lightweight crank pulley

Gia the Ecoboost Mustang:
CFM Baffled Billet Valve Cover Breather Kit
MMR CAI
UPR Dual Valve Oil Catch Can
FFTec Charge Pipes Synapse+Street Intercooler
Synapse DV
Steeda Throttle Body Spacer
Boomba Intake Manifold spacer
NGK 6510
Krona Catted DP
Turbosmart Wastegate Actuator 10psi
JDM Tuned using SCT4
Mishimoto: Coolant Expansion Tank, Radiator, Radiator Silicone hoses, Oil Cooler

Gonna measure twice and cut once here as well, and as ya can see, both my cars had their intercoolers upgraded

 

[Mishimoto]

Did you do any extended sweep times and take readings at different RPMs to put together a full sweep?
Meaning, did you run at say 1500rpms for 2 minutes and then slowly increase through the rpm range and take readings every two minutes? This would recreate actual road use as no one ever runs their vehicle for 8 seconds and then shuts it off.
Not trying to be difficult, just wanted more real world experience. As operating temps change and level themselves out, the HP and TQ can change in real world driving.

There are numerous ways we could have conducted this test and what you are mentioning could be an option. Our Engineering Team chose to run the sweeps in 8 second full-throttle pulls to help maintain consistency across the testing. The 8 second pull taxes the system in the most aggressive way, displaying a 'worst case scenario.' Driving a vehicle at 1500rpm takes little engine 'effort' (little load on engine and low/no boost levels), so even though it's simulating a more real-world driving scenario, it's not working the turbo/intercooler system as hard.

I know it's a stupid question, but was the hood up or down during testing? Again, not able to drive with the hood up so testing it should be closed.

The hood was closed during all dyno tests.

For question #5: This is the type of information I'm looking for as shown on APRs website. Scroll down about half-way and you'll see the details of the CFD analysis. Not sure why you wouldn't be able to share that information publicly. APR has a ton of competition making IC's for VWs. I actually had their entire Stage 3 setup on my GTI (made about 400hp/400tq from 2L) and it worked flawlessly.
https://www.goapr.com/products/engine_hardware/charge_air_coolers/air_to_air_coolers/parts/IC100019

Former engineer who looks closely at the details of everything I purchase.

Understood on the request and apologize for not sharing it.

- John P

 

[Lèòn]

There are numerous ways we could have conducted this test and what you are mentioning could be an option. Our Engineering Team chose to run the sweeps in 8 second full-throttle pulls to help maintain consistency across the testing. The 8 second pull taxes the system in the most aggressive way, displaying a 'worst case scenario.' Driving a vehicle at 1500rpm takes little engine 'effort' (little load on engine and low/no boost levels), so even though it's simulating a more real-world driving scenario, it's not working the turbo/intercooler system as hard.



The hood was closed during all dyno tests.



Understood on the request and apologize for not sharing it.

- John P

Off this topic, but quick question. How long are the presales for? Just week of or say 2 weeks? Depending on finances, see how it'll turn out

 

[Bronc69]

There are numerous ways we could have conducted this test and what you are mentioning could be an option. Our Engineering Team chose to run the sweeps in 8 second full-throttle pulls to help maintain consistency across the testing. The 8 second pull taxes the system in the most aggressive way, displaying a 'worst case scenario.' Driving a vehicle at 1500rpm takes little engine 'effort' (little load on engine and low/no boost levels), so even though it's simulating a more real-world driving scenario, it's not working the turbo/intercooler system as hard.
- John P

You can simulate load using the dyno so it's not in a little or no "effort."
You can actually simulate going up hill in windy conditions with a loaded up vehicle too.

I understand the back-to-back quick sweeps. It's only going to be for a short time relatively speaking, but in the end taxing the engine for sure.
You might end up with better results in more real world testing. I believe the more usable data you have, the easier it'll be to sell.

 

[Mishimoto]

Today is the day many of you have been waiting for... PRE-SALE ANNOUNCEMENT!

When will my order ship?
We have a limited number of these in stock to ship immediately. First come, first serve. If you are not in the first round, the second round is anticipated to ship in May/June 2023.

How long will the pre-sale pricing last?
Pre-sale pricing will last for four weeks and end on 4/25/2023.

What if I get an automated email about my product being on backorder?
Yes, this is a systems limitation on our side and you might receive more than one backorder email. Sorry it's such a pain, but remember you are ordering a product before we have 100% of the items ready to be shipped.

We wanted to get this pre-sale page out sooner rather than later and we are still finalizing some of our content. I will be sure to update everyone when it's live.

We have two options for Bronco owners with 2.3L EcoBoost engines:

High-Mount Intercooler, fits 2021+ Ford Bronco 2.3L/2.7L ​

High-Mount Intercooler Kit, fits 2021+ Ford Bronco 2.3L​

*There are four color options/combinations for this kit. Not all have been shown below. Check the product page for more images.




Please let me know if you have any questions!

- John P

 

[Lèòn]

Today is the day many of you have been waiting for... PRE-SALE ANNOUNCEMENT!

When will my order ship?
We have a limited number of these in stock to ship immediately. First come, first serve. If you are not in the first round, the second round is anticipated to ship in May/June 2023.

How long will the pre-sale pricing last?
Pre-sale pricing will last for four weeks and end on 4/25/2023.

What if I get an automated email about my product being on backorder?
Yes, this is a systems limitation on our side and you might receive more than one backorder email. Sorry it's such a pain, but remember you are ordering a product before we have 100% of the items ready to be shipped.

We wanted to get this pre-sale page out sooner rather than later and we are still finalizing some of our content. I will be sure to update everyone when it's live.

We have two options for Bronco owners with 2.3L EcoBoost engines:

High-Mount Intercooler, fits 2021+ Ford Bronco 2.3L/2.7L​

High-Mount Intercooler Kit, fits 2021+ Ford Bronco 2.3L​

*There are four color options/combinations for this kit. Not all have been shown below. Check the product page for more images.



Please let me know if you have any questions!

- John P

Edit: cant wait, should be set to order soon

 

[Razorback]

Today is the day many of you have been waiting for... PRE-SALE ANNOUNCEMENT!

When will my order ship?
We have a limited number of these in stock to ship immediately. First come, first serve. If you are not in the first round, the second round is anticipated to ship in May/June 2023.

How long will the pre-sale pricing last?
Pre-sale pricing will last for four weeks and end on 4/25/2023.

What if I get an automated email about my product being on backorder?
Yes, this is a systems limitation on our side and you might receive more than one backorder email. Sorry it's such a pain, but remember you are ordering a product before we have 100% of the items ready to be shipped.

We wanted to get this pre-sale page out sooner rather than later and we are still finalizing some of our content. I will be sure to update everyone when it's live.

We have two options for Bronco owners with 2.3L EcoBoost engines:

High-Mount Intercooler, fits 2021+ Ford Bronco 2.3L/2.7L​

High-Mount Intercooler Kit, fits 2021+ Ford Bronco 2.3L​

*There are four color options/combinations for this kit. Not all have been shown below. Check the product page for more images.



Please let me know if you have any questions!

- John P

Looks amazing. With the high mount, concerns on long road trips or long trails limiting air across the radiator or would the low mount be better for those ues?

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