B&O blew a Kicker 46CSC44 4"

[Westbayou]

Just curious if anyone has had a similar experience. Was cruising down the road today streaming some "driving music" on Pandora, had the stereo turned up to 16 or 17. Mid-song, the drivers side dash speaker starts crackling badly. I turn down the music, and when I get to my destination I use the fader to see if it is the speaker or the signal. It is definitely the speaker. I installed Kicker 46CSC44 4" speakers at all 4 corners about a month ago on an otherwise stock B&O stereo system. The improvement was dramatic, but I'm shocked that I blew a speaker already, let alone the B&O had the juice to do that.

The upside is Crutchfield already has a replacement on the way. They get a 10 for customer service.

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[MnLakeBum]

It's not that the B&O factory amp has too much power; it's the distortion when the amp is clipping that kills the voice coil. The factory B&O amp is not a high end amp and clips rather easily when you crank it up.

 

[Westbayou]

Swapped in a warranty replacement Kicker speaker today. Fingers crossed this one holds up. I really don't want to pull them all out and return them.

 

[MKZoom]

it appears this speaker is only rated for 50W RMS, depending on where it is impedance dips and where the factory EQ is sending power, its possible its being overdriven and over heating.

i dont think the factory amp is sending "lots of clipped signals".

 

[RockyMtnHi]

Looks like the B&O amp is 660 watts.

https://corporate.bang-olufsen.com/en/partners/automotive/ford/bronco

 

[Bikeric]

Does B&O consider the "COAX" speakers on the dash to be QTY=2 at each location? I'm having a hard time counting to "10 speakers".
Edit: OP, I have not blown my Kicker KSC404's or my PRV 4MR60's yet. The PRV's are only rated at 30W so they may go first when/if I do blow something.

 

[Deleted User 5719102]

Does B&O consider the "COAX" speakers on the dash to be QTY=2 at each location? I'm having a hard time counting to "10 speakers".
Edit: OP, I have not blown my Kicker KSC404's or my PRV 4MR60's yet. The PRV's are only rated at 30W so they may go first when/if I do blow something.

Yes

 

[RockyMtnHi]

Yes, I think the extra white circles represent the tweeters. That is how the Super Duty diagram shows the tweeters.

 

[Suke996]

It's not that the B&O factory amp has too much power; it's the distortion when the amp is clipping that kills the voice coil. The factory B&O amp is not a high end amp and clips rather easily when you crank it up.

100% correct. The amps power isn't what blows a speaker, its the distortion that causes the speaker to go bad.

 

[Umichigan1]

it appears this speaker is only rated for 50W RMS, depending on where it is impedance dips and where the factory EQ is sending power, its possible its being overdriven and over heating.

i dont think the factory amp is sending "lots of clipped signals".

There is a common and significant misunderstanding regarding speaker and amplifier compatibility. An earlier poster nailed the problem exactly. The stock OEM amplifiers (including the B&O) are made as cheaply as possible (the B&O label only means it may be slightly better than the stock amplifier). The power ratings of both the speakers AND the amps can amount to gibberish if the elements used to manufacture them are inferior. All amplifier manufacturers play games with ratings to make them appear "powerful" but without clean SIGNALS the sound will always be inferior regardless. Power ratings alone will never tell you all that you need to know to build a good system. If you replace the B&O amp with an aftermarket one (using the correct bypass procedures with line output transformers) your chances of a better output and better sound increase exponentially, even with the OEM speakers (having said that, speakers are the easiest to upgrade and least expensive part of the signal path and if you upgrade the amp it would be a shame not to take advantage of a cleaner signal). Somewhere on this forum I have documented my relatively inexpensive solutions to these problems. Please search for my posts and examine my experiences.

 

[MKZoom]

There is a common and significant misunderstanding regarding speaker and amplifier compatibility. An earlier poster nailed the problem exactly. The stock OEM amplifiers (including the B&O) are made as cheaply as possible (the B&O label only means it may be slightly better than the stock amplifier). The power ratings of both the speakers AND the amps can amount to gibberish if the elements used to manufacture them are inferior. All amplifier manufacturers play games with ratings to make them appear "powerful" but without clean SIGNALS the sound will always be inferior regardless. Power ratings alone will never tell you all that you need to know to build a good system. If you replace the B&O amp with an aftermarket one (using the correct bypass procedures with line output transformers) your chances of a better output and better sound increase exponentially, even with the OEM speakers (having said that, speakers are the easiest to upgrade and least expensive part of the signal path and if you upgrade the amp it would be a shame not to take advantage of a cleaner signal). Somewhere on this forum I have documented my relatively inexpensive solutions to these problems. Please search for my posts and examine my experiences.

while i appreciate the response. i do have an understanding of power figures and how silly they can be.

you make a number of claims here without much but anecdotal evidence.

there are three things which may sound similar but are different.
1. distortion: this is simply when the output differs from the input. while there are multiple types of distortion, claiming "distortion kills speakers" is reductionist at best and misleading at worst.

2. compression: this can sound similar to distortion, and is technically a type of distortion but compression will PREVENT speakers from blowing. so while compression is not ideal, it will save speakers

3. Clipping: clipping is when the signal cannot reach its full peak and forms a partial square wave. THIS is what can kill speakers as it is sending power but the voice coil is not moving and thus, not cooling. both the amp or the speaker could be clipping, both would sound fairly bad and be quite obvious.

the OEM amp probably has some amount of general distortion and compression at high volumes, but clipping is unlikely (unless you have documented proof of this which i have yet to see)

To circle back to the entire point. this kicker driver is rated for 50W RMS, depending on where its intended range is and where it is receiving the most power, its possible it is being overdriven. and i reject claims of "distortion kills speakers". you can specify "clipping" or "excessive power". but generic distortion only confuses people who are new to audio.

 

[Lcubed]

hmm, back when my job involved testing of transducer/amplifier pairings, clipping was counted as an extreme form of distortion and a criteria for failing the combo.

 

[Umichigan1]

while i appreciate the response. i do have an understanding of power figures and how silly they can be.

you make a number of claims here without much but anecdotal evidence.

there are three things which may sound similar but are different.
1. distortion: this is simply when the output differs from the input. while there are multiple types of distortion, claiming "distortion kills speakers" is reductionist at best and misleading at worst.

2. compression: this can sound similar to distortion, and is technically a type of distortion but compression will PREVENT speakers from blowing. so while compression is not ideal, it will save speakers

3. Clipping: clipping is when the signal cannot reach its full peak and forms a partial square wave. THIS is what can kill speakers as it is sending power but the voice coil is not moving and thus, not cooling. both the amp or the speaker could be clipping, both would sound fairly bad and be quite obvious.

the OEM amp probably has some amount of general distortion and compression at high volumes, but clipping is unlikely (unless you have documented proof of this which i have yet to see)

To circle back to the entire point. this kicker driver is rated for 50W RMS, depending on where its intended range is and where it is receiving the most power, its possible it is being overdriven. and i reject claims of "distortion kills speakers". you can specify "clipping" or "excessive power". but generic distortion only confuses people who are new to audio.

Actually, I felt that I was keeping it simple for someone who wants a nice watch but isn't too concerned with how that watch functions. I didn't intend to offend you or anyone else. I am only trying to be helpful. I'm sure you'll agree that an anecdotal discussion can sometimes be the most efficient way to communicate an idea or a personal experience.

 

[MKZoom]

hmm, back when my job involved testing of transducer/amplifier pairings, clipping was counted as an extreme form of distortion and a criteria for failing the combo.

you would be correct. in simple terms, clipping is very bad. (and is a form of distortion. but only one form)

Actually, I felt that I was keeping it simple for someone who wants a nice watch but isn't too concerned with how that watch functions. I didn't intend to offend you or anyone else. I am only trying to be helpful. I'm sure you'll agree that an anecdotal discussion can sometimes be the most efficient way to communicate an idea or a personal experience.

i didnt take offense, sorry if it came off that way. just want to make sure we are not misusing terms. when it comes to power, i see it constantly.

 

[Boosted2.3L]

There is a common and significant misunderstanding regarding speaker and amplifier compatibility. An earlier poster nailed the problem exactly. The stock OEM amplifiers (including the B&O) are made as cheaply as possible (the B&O label only means it may be slightly better than the stock amplifier). The power ratings of both the speakers AND the amps can amount to gibberish if the elements used to manufacture them are inferior. All amplifier manufacturers play games with ratings to make them appear "powerful" but without clean SIGNALS the sound will always be inferior regardless. Power ratings alone will never tell you all that you need to know to build a good system. If you replace the B&O amp with an aftermarket one (using the correct bypass procedures with line output transformers) your chances of a better output and better sound increase exponentially, even with the OEM speakers (having said that, speakers are the easiest to upgrade and least expensive part of the signal path and if you upgrade the amp it would be a shame not to take advantage of a cleaner signal). Somewhere on this forum I have documented my relatively inexpensive solutions to these problems. Please search for my posts and examine my experiences.

So what is your recommendation to prevent this clipping when using the stock amplifier?

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