Mike Levine saying outright he does NOT care about Granger/Chapman/SAC

[treadlightly]

Maybe the 2023 4runner will change our mind's

I will definitely look. I was ready to go with a lifted Tacoma TRD Pro but my wife said she would be too scared to ever drive it. Maybe that should have been interpreted as a selling point.

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[dingle87]

The big elephant in the room is the internet and social media. Technically, Granger isn't supposed to be targetting outside its sales area, and Granger would never break this rule by placing ads in California newspapers for example. Social media is much more grey because people can find and share Granger's deal and grant the dealer a national audience.

Big dealers in major metro areas have a lot to lose with this type of dealer capturing sales from what was once a captive market. Unfortunately, they also have the law on their side to pressure Ford into keeping them a small town dealership.

The fact is, any dealer (large or small) can do what Granger does. Their "deal" isn't isolated to Bronco. It's their business model on all mass produced vehicles. They work off volume based sales, not MSRP/ADMs. Big dealers can do the same damn thing, but choose not to hustle and wait for their prey to walk into their store. I see this as the internet finally impacting old school brick and mortar dealerships and none of them like new school. They would much prefer old school. They still have the same opportunity to capture sales in their market, they just aren't working hard to do it, because it's a new ballgame. They don't want the game to change.

This is the elephant in the room.

 

[Troy13]

What's worse is Mike keeps saying on twitter to simply change your dealer to another dealer, but if you've already converted your reservation to an order you can't switch. Ford literally has no idea what they're doing.

 

[treadlightly]

Yeah, not unless it's a massive surprise and the top and doors come off.

After this, I suspect every vehicle will have a removeable roof in 2023.

 

[deejay08]

Right, but here we are lining up like lemmings to be reamed by this company. This will need to be part of the narrative.

If the customers collectively said "f#<k off", these politician-like business leaders would change their ways. Myself included. I have been desperately trying to find an alternative vehicle and put this farce behind me, but every time I see a Bronco I somehow convince myself to stay.

I'm taking a hard look at recon package Jeep and 4 runners rn. I am just about at the point where i speak with my wallet on principle, not because i wouldn't want a Bronco more, but id be happy with any of those 3 choices.

 

[BroncoT]

If it really is just 2% of all orders then why would Ford take the black eye? This is about precedent and they chose dealer happiness over competition. This is why a class action lawsuit is inevitable.

 

[rugbysecondrow]

Mike Levine just said that for 2% of us, the sky IS falling.... that's the whole rub bub

Is it though? In case you haven't noticed, we are all waiting in line, just at a different stage. I don't have a Bronco, you don't, 95% of order holders don't. Should the sky be falling for all of us?

You don't even have any real facts or information, just some misc tweets and snippets from a few well-intentioned, but obviously biased dealerships.

Your situation will be worked out the same way all the other issues and constraints are being worked out.

We are all waiting in line...but y'all are making it way more unpleasant with the constant complaining about the exact same issue. How many threads have to be created to complain about the same stuff?

If it really is just 2% of all orders then why would Ford take the black eye? This is about precedent and they chose dealer happiness over competition. This is why a class action lawsuit is inevitable.

There won't be a class action lawsuit...that is a ridiculous idea.

 

[Rick Astley]

Bronco is a mass produced vehicle, the GT350 (R or Not) is an actual limited edition. That's difference #1

Ford didn't ask for reservations for GT350s promising people a place in line. That's difference #2.

Reservations are retail orders with customer names attached. If they are making it to the customers who actually ordered them, personally I don't care if one dealership sells 1000/2800. Allowing one dealer to buy 30% of the country's supply for dealer stock is stupid, but that's not even in the same ballpark as what we're talking about here. That's difference #3

Ford was a member of the Granger did nothing wrong crowd right up until they changed the rules. Zach got his planned cleared by his rep prior to offering it.

That's not what anyone is asking for. Granger customers don't deserve theirs first. They deserve theirs in the place in line they reserved them with concessions made for constraints like hard tops.

If you were trying to set a world record for false equivalencies in one post, I don't know if you won, but you're surely a competitor.

Bronco is a resource-constrained vehicle at this time, like GT350R is a volume-constrained vehicle. Once MAP fires up at 100% capacity (in 2023?) then this whole thing is a non-issue.

GT350R's were plenty constrained at the floorplan level by dealership allocations (due to, among other things, volume) as to who could possibly get one.

But if you really want to ground-pound a point home, lets say Granger submits customer orders for 3,000 Sports, or 3,000 of any single model. Are they getting them all? No. They will have to play with their allocation set by volume.

Granger customers are and continue to be in line, what's the issue? Their line just happens to be the one at the very far side of the stadium that a TON of people think is the secret fast line of awesomeness, but only has 2 employees taking tickets so it ends up being a slow line.

FWIW, this entire process from reservation to delivery is following exactly how Ranger pre-orders went, except the volume is higher and it's not possible to be at 100% manufacturing capacity. Customers had their reservation number in line and also had to wait until dealerships got their allocations. It's not simply a customer ID centric system and never has been.

Granger chose to set themselves out as the discount player and got exactly what it wanted. Everyone wins, eventually, regardless if you like the argument or not.

 

[phocion]

The bottom line is that Ford told customers that Broncos would be produced in approximately the order in which they were reserved, subject to availability of parts. They changed their tune later (and realistically many customers did not observe the change in the fine print), but this was the deal when many people reserved, and Ford has reiterated it several times since.

All of this discussion about allocation, big dealer, small dealer, is beside the point. That's internal Ford politics that no customer should reasonably have to concern himself with. Ford has never talked allocation formula to us, the consumer. Once we're having to talk about that stuff, Ford has already messed up massively.

I'm not saying Ford has a legal obligation to get people their Broncos when they said they would. I'm just saying it's good business, and anything less is a colossal failure, a PR problem, and a breach of trust. By Ford, not by any dealer.

 

[BroncoT]

Is it though? In case you haven't noticed, we are all waiting in line, just at a different stage. I don't have a Bronco, you don't, 95% of order holders don't. Should the sky be falling for all of us?

You don't even have any real facts or information, just some misc tweets and snippets from a few well-intentioned, but obviously biased dealerships.

Your situation will be worked out the same way all the other issues and constraints are being worked out.

We are all waiting in line...but y'all are making it way more unpleasant with the constant complaining about the exact same issue. How many threads have to be created to complain about the same stuff?



There won't be a class action lawsuit...that is a ridiculous idea.

Not for the Bronco, but reservations systems in general. Inevitable. Mark my words

 

[hemiblas]

I find it hilarious the sheer amount of people trying to claim dealers would commit to pricing.

This was what the first dealer told me…

After I read they didn’t know what pricing would be and wanted to add $1,600 in add-ons I was out. I switched to Granger in mid-August before the other 1,000+ people followed me, they only had like 100-150 when I switched. How was I to know my experience would be the same as everyone else and everyone else would follow suit? Now everyone is being punished simply for looking out for themselves. The apologists on this website are unreal.

 

[Atomicdog]

Lucas Ford, Haldeman Ford (both locations), Miller Ford, Lawrenceville Ford, and Medford Ford all wanted nothing to do with discussions relating to putting pricing in writing, especially not at MSRP.
I've been trying to avoid naming names, but you want to call me out, here we are.

Miller Ford was the closest to being helpful, and said MSRP but wouldn't write it down. Holman Ford was my original reservation dealer, but while they claimed to be at MSRP, they failed to disclose that they don't consider (overpriced) accessory packages ADM, and I didn't get them to sign anything because this was before I knew better. Once I found that out I started my search for a new dealer, which lead me to calling 6 others.

After much disgust I joined B6G and found chapman. They've treated me with respect, unlike any of the other places.

I didn't read every post since but I'm sure he apologized about his post that called you a liar while he misrepresented what you said.

 

[BuckyBronco]

Dude, putting in writing that "all resevraions will be built before dealer stock"...and then sending thousands of dealer stock units out to preferrred dealers while reservation holders sit with nothing is exactly "bending over their reservation holders". They promised one thing to get reservations...and are doing another.

"Promise" is an incredible strong word to use...and as we all should know by now, this all has been a moving target for it's entirety.

Ford is going to sell ever Bronco that rolls off the assembly line with zero effort for the foreseeable future. They shouldn't be looking to appease a couple of small dealers at the expense of those that earn them money across all vehicle lines, and no one should be expecting them to. That's just reality, and you can think of it as "bending over their reservation holders", but it's a reality that isn't likely to change.

 

[rugbysecondrow]

The big elephant in the room is the internet and social media. Technically, Granger isn't supposed to be targetting outside its sales area, and Granger would never break this rule by placing ads in California newspapers for example. Social media is much more grey because people can find and share Granger's deal and grant the dealer a national audience.

Big dealers in major metro areas have a lot to lose with this type of dealer capturing sales from what was once a captive market. Unfortunately, they also have the law on their side to pressure Ford into keeping them a small town dealership.

This. Poaching, targeting, marketing...whatever word you want to use, it is clear that some dealerships were fishing in other people's ponds, on purpose.

 

[Bronco23]

If it really is just 2% of all orders then why would Ford take the black eye? This is about precedent and they chose dealer happiness over competition. This is why a class action lawsuit is inevitable.

I dont know why people keep saying it is 2%. It's not and he said so in his tweet. It is 2% of orders placed at a smaller dealership offering a deal. Nobody knows that number, Unless you know what Ford considers a small dealership and add all those oprders up, it is a mystery

I find it hilarious the sheer amount of people trying to claim dealers would commit to pricing.

This was what the first dealer told me…

After I read they didn’t know what pricing would be and wanted to add $1,600 in add-ons I was out. I switched to Granger in mid-August before the other 1,000+ people followed me, they only had like 100-150 when I switched. How was I to know my experience would be the same as everyone else and everyone else would follow suit? Now everyone is being punished simply for looking out for themselves. The apologists on this website are unreal.

My dealer commited to pricing, and told me they were offering MSRP and no ADM. I have a signed quote sheet I signed and my dealer signed upon entering my Order. When I re-enter my '22 order tomorrow, I will have another one.

Luckily this dealer is 10 Minutes from my house, I called on others and they were also offering MSRP but further away.

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