Mike Levine saying outright he does NOT care about Granger/Chapman/SAC

[Bronco21fan]

Dude, you have a lot of catching up to do.

People did do their research. I personally called every Ford dealership within 100 miles. None of them would discuss pricing. Only one even returned my phone call. That's why I and many others on this forum went with small dealerships that actually put their deal in writing, returned our calls and emails, and answered all our questions about the Bronco and the process.

So you landed on the unicorn big dealership that isn't charging you a five-figure markup and has the allocation to get you a Bronco in a timely manner. Good for you. Try not to hurt yourself reaching around to pat yourself on the back. But your gloating and "I told you so" attitude is not welcome here. It's really very childish. There are better ways to make yourself feel good about yourself, and they are not at the cost of others' displeasure. Maybe pour yourself a shot and go watch some porn.

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[Panaran]

I'm new to following this, just checking to see if I understand the gist of this. Ford had set allocations for dealers based on a lot of factors initially. Dealerships then started making really great offers that attracted a shit ton of converted orders. Ford did not anticipate this huge consolidation of conversions at these dealerships, and have had to change their allocation numbers accordingly.

So basically, Ford is saying they were forced to change their initial allocation/reservation fulfilment plan because of what the dealerships tactics to take more orders than they were originally allocated. Now reservation holders for smaller dealerships are getting screwed? Is this directionally correct?

This makes sense tho. Back in March I was asking my dealer how many allocations they had and where I was in line. He said he had X (I forgot exactly) number of allocations, but that number could increase if their dealership submitted enough orders. So it seems like this has been Fords plan for a long time, this isn't new. Dealers have known since the beginning that they could get more allocations adjusted in their favor if they submit enough orders beyond their limits.

 

[OmahaKevin]

I can get a V8 Jeep for what local dealers want for a 4cyl Bronco. Got my Bronco through Granger and it'll be built 11/15 but Ford is absolutely mangling this launch.

You can't swing at the king of the segment and then fail on deliveries, promised, and the value proposition. Smaller dealers are now going to charge ADM more openly knowing they'll never fill their reservations. Bigger dealers can charge all the ADM they want because they'll have an endless supply of retail orders and lot stock orders.

Go respond to @mrlevine on Twitter with this info. The world needs to hear this.

 

[TalexBrizzley]

My dealer told me to go buy a Jeep. I think they are as frustrated as we are.

For the money of a loaded up bronco, why not just get one of these?

Damn that defender is sexy.

I don't want to move my Bronco res to another dealer, but may have to to get my Bronco this decade. After playing with their B&P, I can order a loaded 4 door Willys with a $4,000 one-touch power top for the price of a non-squatch 2dr Badlands... and I just might.

 

[rutherk1]

I don't want to move my Bronco res to another dealer, but may have to to get my Bronco this decade. After playing with their B&P, I can order a loaded 4 door Willys with a $4,000 one-touch power top for the price of a non-squatch 2dr Badlands... and I just might.

Honestly, unless you are stuck on Ford as a brand, I imagine you would have just as much fun with it.

 

[hemiblas]

Go respond to @mrlevine on Twitter with this info. The world needs to hear this.

Agreed, we all need to be on twitter and remind him of who his customers are.

 

[gimlithepirate]

I had one of the Granger 2k off deals and finally came to my senses. How is a small dealer in a small market going to handle hundreds (guessing, but, yeah) of reservations and deliver? Don't be making saints out of them. Yes, they are upfront about wanting to grow their dealership, but at some point you have to tell people, uh, don't think we can get you a vehicle this year.

My situation is unique in that I'm perfectly happy to wait until MY23/24. I saw my reservation as an option to buy a bronco for 2k under invoice at some point in the future. I was never under any impression I'd get one before late 22. My calculus was get in 22, daily drive for 5 years, then make it an offroader. At that point my 4runner would be 20 years old, which might be an issue.

My only frustration is I'm guessing ford will stop doing price protection for MY23.

 

[mmorgan]

I'm not surprised. I dealt with the same kind of people in my second life. When they get that high in the food chain they couldn't care less about the customer. It also gives us a snapshot of the entire Ford leadership. Very sad, because at one time I was one of Ford's biggest Fanboys. Man do I feel the fool now.

Was no fanboy but thought Ford would be good to their word.
And the fact Ford changed the allocation system for what seems to be Grangers transgressions is even harder to understand. Levine associates 2% of sales to a dealer who abused the system. That's a sad overreaction. Especially considering the negative taste left in our mouths.
Also ignoring that many if us chose to by out of state because of the miserable experience offered locally. And end the end will not be saving a substantial amount of cash. Certainly not enough to offset all the frustration.
I'm still in with Granger but if this drags on I will buy something other than a Ford.

 

[ATLColonial]

I just want to add that we did in fact know about allocations. I remember it being a huge thing around here why allocations existed for reservation holders.

My dealer refused to tell me where I stood in their allocated Broncos for 2021. I'm an early day 3 reservation holder. I was pretty nervous I wouldn't make it.
The only reason my blend date is today is because I switched to soft top. Otherwise I'm sure I wouldn't have made my relatively small dealers allocation.

I don't think that other guy was bragging. I think @Dads_bronze_bronco was just being pragmatic. It absolutely was a risk going with these small dealers who historically couldn't fulfill a third of these orders (and that's me being generous in the ratio). I don't think Ford is in the right. But taking a step back and knowing the facts and history (allocation was always a 'thing')... you can see how going with these smaller dealers was a gamble

I think we all learned about allocations on this site, very few of us came in here having any idea about how this system worked. My point was that we had no way of knowing if or how those would change over time, and I find the "I told you so" attitude, when there was no way for us to know, pretty obnoxious and unnecessary.

You're right that it was always a gamble, but choosing any dealer was a gamble. We all had the same facts, and we made different bets. Granger and others got a ton of allocations because of how they played the system last year, meaning that bigger dealerships got less and those on here who willing to pay more for a bigger dealer with potentially more allocations lost out. We expected that the allocation was going to stay the same year over year until the reservations were fulfilled (based on what Ford repeatedly promised), which turned out not to be true, and those who were disadvantaged last year now are sitting in a better position for next year.

We also can't pretend this happened in a vacuum, or that this was at all a "normal" car buying experience. Folks made their decision based on statements made by Ford, and I imagine this would have all gone very differently if they hadn't done the reservation system or stated multiple times that reservations would be fulfilled prior to dealer stock. We should be shaming Ford for not being honest, not the people who relied on their statements.

 

[RBF 1401]

I personally decided between the SAC and Chapman deals, and my local dealer at MSRP when I ordered in March. Both SAC and Chapman were up front when asked about where I would be in their allotment. Outside the bubble for 2021 (with a mid day two reservation). I chose MSRP at my local dealer where I was in the first third, and still am rolling to 2022. The primary reason I made that choice was 2022 allotments vs dealer stock, and dealing with a dealer three to four states away who also has a local market to serve, were risks.

Anyone in the Granger / Chapman / SAC predicament today, especially those outside the original allotment, took a gamble to get a few thousand off. They knew Ford was fluid and unpredictable. They knew dealers and markets were pressuring Ford to swing the balance. And they knew all bets were off after the 2021 known state. Or they should have.

It's that simple.

Why do people keep insisting that people placed orders with SAC and Stephens and Granger and Chapmam Horsham and Kearny Mesa to "get a few thousand off" when that is not the case.

The majority of people are just like me, my local dealer, the one where Ford automatically put my reservation WOULDN'T EVEN TALK TO ME. Even when I showed up in person, they just kept giving me the brush off.

Me: I've got a reservation for a Bronco, who do I speak to about this?

Them: You can't order Broncos yet, and we really aren't sure who is going to do that.

Me (different day question to a different person): I've got some questions about buying a Bronco, can you help me?

Them: The 1970 Bronco is not for sale, it's just a display.

Me: No, I have a Bronco reserved here and want to ask a couple of questions.

Nope, couldn't help me.

So I called Albert and he gave me his cell number and wrote down times for my lunch and planning period so he wouldn't call while I was teaching class...

...even before I gave them a reservation!

Mike Levine apparently has no clue. Maybe he can give us a list of honest dealers with higher allocation than reservations. Or even a list of honest dealers... because the forum compiled this information and these are the very dealers Ford is refusing to give adequate allocation.

And by the way... It's not a good business model to openly admit you are only going to help 98% of your customers.

 

[TalexBrizzley]

Honestly, unless you are stuck on Ford as a brand, I imagine you would have just as much fun with it.

Agreed. These are first world problems, but the way we've been jerked around and the blatant middle finger to the small dealers with this Levine tweet, I'm willing to be constantly picking up my Jeep from the shop just to prove a point. I started at my local dealer, moved my res to a dealer offering X-Plan, now may have to move it again to a giant dealer just to get my Bronco in the next year.

 

[ATLColonial]

I had one of the Granger 2k off deals and finally came to my senses. How is a small dealer in a small market going to handle hundreds (guessing, but, yeah) of reservations and deliver? Don't be making saints out of them. Yes, they are upfront about wanting to grow their dealership, but at some point you have to tell people, uh, don't think we can get you a vehicle this year.

They have done that. See their several threads on the allocation system.

 

[aj_benedetto]

AJ, thanks for your response. If the bolded statement above is true, then what does your Ford rep say about the ADM at delivery we've seen? Or the ADM upfront at order time over MSRP? Why is Ford simply letting that happen vs smashing these dealers with less allocation? I'm a Granger order. Yes, the deal initially got my attention, but when I saw the interaction from Albert last summer and the transparency, that's why I made my reservation with them. It wasn't about the "deal", it was about the transparency. That's the truth. I just tweeted to Mike Levine and Jim Farley that I'd gladly pay MSRP at Granger, if they delivered 100% of reservations vs the 98% Mike tweeted about.

If Ford wants uniform pricing, they need to squash it on both ends, not just one.

Thanks for posting your thoughts. I appreciate the other side of the information as well.

So here is where it gets tricky. Ford has been using the Ad Covenant Program on newer products like Mach-e and Lightning. This program is supposed to regulate what price each dealer can openly advertise for a certain product. This isn't a new program in the automotive industry, as some other manufacturers like Honda have a similar program. Now, this really only extends to advertising, and not the actual selling price. Once a customer comes into the store, you can in theory discount your product to make a deal. It is meant to level the playing field so that larger stores that sell a massive amount of vehicles can't drown out your family-owned stores who sell far less. There have been whispers that for future products, Ford will require the dealers to sell at no more than MSRP, but nothing has been set. Obviously changes this big will take time, but hopefully the days of dealers charging customers ADM at the time of delivery are numbered.

I wanted to address the transparency that Granger is famous for. I have so much respect for those guys, and the time it takes to respond to each question is probably enough to tie up an employee for 8+ hours every day. I do the best I can as a one-man-show as I handle all the Bronco orders at my store, but transparency and simply being polite goes a long way. I love working with each customer and if more stores took the time to treat each customer with the respect they deserve, we wouldn't be in this mess.

 

[OmahaKevin]

Why do people keep insisting that people placed orders with SAC and Stephens and Granger and Chapmam Horsham and Kearny Mesa to "get a few thousand off" when that is not the case.

The majority of people are just like me, my local dealer, the one where Ford automatically put my reservation WOULDN'T EVEN TALK TO ME. Even when I showed up in person, they just kept giving me the brush off.

Me: I've got a reservation for a Bronco, who do I speak to about this?

Them: You can't order Broncos yet, and we really aren't sure who is going to do that.

Me (different day question to a different person): I've got some questions about buying a Bronco, can you help me?

Them: The 1970 Bronco is not for sale, it's just a display.

Me: No, I have a Brinco reserved here and want to ask a couple of questions.

Nope, couldn't help me.

So I called Albert and he gave me his cell number and write down times for my lunch and planning period so he wouldn't call while I was teaching class...

...even before I gave them a reservation!

Mike Levine apparently has no clue. Maybe he can give us a list of honest dealers with higher allocation than reservations. Or even a list of honest dealers... because the forum compiled this information and these are the very dealers Ford is refusing to give adequate allocation.

And by the way... It's not a good business model to openly admit you are only going to help 98% if your customers.

Please get this out on Twitter, etc. These are great stories. Go find any Tweet about the Bronco and reply so everyone knows what Ford did

 

[rutherk1]

Agreed. These are first world problems, but the way we've been jerked around and the blatant middle finger to the small dealers with this Levine tweet, I'm willing to be constantly picking up my Jeep from the shop just to prove a point.

Seriously. I dont blame you. If I hadn't found my Badlands at a reasonable price, I'd be rolling in something else. I sold my SuperDuty since the market was so hot (as many did) and was a day 2 reservations. No updates from ford other than "dealer ordered".

I would have rather heard "Sorry dude. We messed up and aren't going to be able to build your bronco". People are understanding if you are straight with them. Thats my only gripe. Ford hasn't been upfront.

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