Mike Levine saying outright he does NOT care about Granger/Chapman/SAC

[Heffe66413]

Times are a changing. The world is much smaller now. Information is readily available. Social comments are everywhere. Ever wonder how well Ford would have Done if they would have sold the bronco directly to the buyer at fixed set prices? Its just Food for thought.

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[dingle87]

I am sure that at some point Ford began to get complaints from some of its larger stores about how some smaller stores are offering this amazing deal, and "poaching" customers from their own backyard. Ford as a company is really starting to trend toward having a uniform price structure, regulation of what price you can openly advertise, and a complete departure from rebates. Even though I can understand the change, I can't fully support it. At the end of the day the people who are getting hurt here are the consumers. You switched to Granger, SAC, and Chapman for a great deal, and amazing customer service; you shouldn't be punished for that.



AJ
Hoffman Ford

AJ, thanks for your response. If the bolded statement above is true, then what does your Ford rep say about the ADM at delivery we've seen? Or the ADM upfront at order time over MSRP? Why is Ford simply letting that happen vs smashing these dealers with less allocation? I'm a Granger order. Yes, the deal initially got my attention, but when I saw the interaction from Albert last summer and the transparency, that's why I made my reservation with them. It wasn't about the "deal", it was about the transparency. That's the truth. I just tweeted to Mike Levine and Jim Farley that I'd gladly pay MSRP at Granger, if they delivered 100% of reservations vs the 98% Mike tweeted about.

If Ford wants uniform pricing, they need to squash it on both ends, not just one.

Thanks for posting your thoughts. I appreciate the other side of the information as well.

 

[Vigor]

My dealer told me to go buy a Jeep. I think they are as frustrated as we are.

For the money of a loaded up bronco, why not just get one of these?

Damn that defender is sexy.

Does that jeep come stock like that?
And I've always loved the defenders. It's why I even looked the way of the Bronco, because it reminds me of a more rugged (and less expensive) defender

 

[hemiblas]

I hope Ford reconsiders. It is more than 2 percent of the customers they are alienating and these customers won't forget. I have 5 cars that I trade out every 3 to 4 years and they were all going to be Ford Broncos, Bronco sports, mustangs and a Ford F150 hybrid or Lightning before this happened. Now it looks like they will be something different. I am only one person, but there are many just like me. All reservations need to be filled regardless of allocation.

 

[dingle87]

I hope Ford reconsiders. It is more than 2 percent of the customers they are alienating and these customers won't forget. I have 5 cars that I trade out every 3 to 4 years and they were all going to be Ford Broncos and lightnings before this happened. Now it looks like they will all be something different. I am only one person, but there are many just like me.

Yep. Sad part is, those customers at other small, family owned dealerships might not even realize what just happened to them. They'll find out in the coming months after the shitstorm has past them by. Then they'll be pissed when they realize what this allocation change really did to all the small dealers and not just the "special deal" dealers. I bet there are many posters here don't realize just what happened and they're in the same boat as the Granger, SAC and Chapman buyers.

 

[Motor City Lifer]

just a little info about the reservation process(fine print) brought to light...
might be why Mr Levine feels that FMC actions were within there rights.
copied and pasted from another thread on B6G

7. Right to Modify, Cancel Program.

Ford reserves the right to change, update, improve, correct, modify, suspend, discontinue or cancel all or part of the Program, including any of its features, functionalities or manners of operation at any time without any notice or obligation to you. Your use of the Program after any changes are implemented will be considered acceptance of such changes.

11. Force Majeure.

Your participation in the Program and/or your Reservation does not create liability for Ford or you for any failure to perform due to an event beyond our control, including, but not limited to, any Act of God, terrorism, war, political insurgence, insurrection, riot, civil unrest, act of civil or military authority, uprising, unavailability of materials, strike, earthquake, flood, pandemic or any other natural or man-made eventuality outside of our control.

13. Limitation of Liability.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER, SUBJECT ONLY TO THE LIMITS OF APPLICABLE LAW, SHALL FORD BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, PUNITIVE, INDIRECT, OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES OF ANY KIND WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING LOST PROFITS, LOSS OF BUSINESS OR LOSS OF OPPORTUNITY, REGARDLESS OF THE BASIS OR CIRCUMSTANCES OF ANY CLAIM, DAMAGE, LOSS OR EXPENSE, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE) OR OTHERWISE, AND REGARDLESS OF WHETHER WE HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF ANY CLAIMS, DAMAGES, LOSSES OR EXPENSES.

IN THE EVENT THAT WE ARE HELD LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIMS, DAMAGES, COSTS OR EXPENSES UNDER, ARISING OUT OF, OR WITH RESPECT TO THESE TERMS OR YOUR RESERVATION, OUR LIABILITY SHALL NOT EXCEED, IN THE AGGREGATE, THE AMOUNT OF YOUR RESERVATION DEPOSIT.

14. Applicable Law, Venue, and Class Action Waiver.

These Terms, its subject matter and its formation, and any related non-contractual disputes or claims, are governed by the laws of the State of Michigan. Ford and you agree that the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan, or the Sixth Circuit Court, Oakland County, Michigan has exclusive jurisdiction to settle any dispute, controversy or claim arising from or connected with these Terms. Ford and you consent to the jurisdiction of the Michigan courts and waive any objections as to personal jurisdiction or as to the laying of venue in such courts due to inconvenient forum or any other basis.

None of these clauses seem to be outside of any legal theory, which means I doubt a judge would find them illegal. This is standard contract language I've seen hundreds of times in my career as a contracts manager. Jurisdiction of law is Michigan. At worst Ford is liable to refund the OP's $100.

 

[andrusoid]

I'm not surprised. I dealt with the same kind of people in my second life. When they get that high in the food chain they couldn't care less about the customer. It also gives us a snapshot of the entire Ford leadership. Very sad, because at one time I was one of Ford's biggest Fanboys. Man do I feel the fool now.

Whoah, folks. @mrlevine was able to tell me that my Bronco was indeed scheduled for a new top and QC this month, and to move my second order for MY22 to my local dealer that is charging MSRP only. Miracle Ford of Gallatin even gave me $500 off MSRP for my first Bronco. And this when I was told unequivocally by the Ford Specialist at the 800 number that I would have to cancel my existing order and create a new one with the Dealer.

No sob story or offer to donate to some charity on my part. I just asked "what's up" and he responded in minutes to allay my frustrations and get the order moved. I feel for the Granger people, I had one of the 2K below MSRP deals. I just figured that they pulled in too many reservations to be able to serve them all and moved to my local guy that can deliver.

 

[balucipher]

I can get a V8 Jeep for what local dealers want for a 4cyl Bronco. Got my Bronco through Granger and it'll be built 11/15 but Ford is absolutely mangling this launch.

You can't swing at the king of the segment and then fail on deliveries, promised, and the value proposition. Smaller dealers are now going to charge ADM more openly knowing they'll never fill their reservations. Bigger dealers can charge all the ADM they want because they'll have an endless supply of retail orders and lot stock orders.

 

[Tonka Bronka]

In light of all of this, my attitude towards Ford has changed drastically. I have my Badlands and I love it. It’s the only one around and people are constantly asking my opinion. My praise was always high, now I tell them to stay away, it’s an overpriced turd bucket, buy a Jeep! I swear the executives in charge of Ford would not make a pimple on a good truck drivers ass!

 

[vrtical]

I hope Ford reconsiders. It is more than 2 percent of the customers they are alienating and these customers won't forget. I have 5 cars that I trade out every 3 to 4 years and they were all going to be Ford Broncos, Bronco sports and a Ford F150 hybrid before this happened. Now it looks like they will all be something different. I am only one person, but there are many just like me.

I had 5 Fords in my driveway at the start of 2020 when I made my 21 Bronco reservation on 7/14/20, I am down to 3 and I dont think its going back up and may slip further. I am confident at this point the Bronco is the last Ford if I even get it. My first car in high school that I bought with my own money was a Ford. I bleed as much blue as there is, but Ford has effectively slit my wrists at the moment.

 

[mpoteet]

just a little info about the reservation process(fine print) brought to light...
might be why Mr Levine feels that FMC actions were within there rights.
copied and pasted from another thread on B6G

7. Right to Modify, Cancel Program.

Ford reserves the right to change, update, improve, correct, modify, suspend, discontinue or cancel all or part of the Program, including any of its features, functionalities or manners of operation at any time without any notice or obligation to you. Your use of the Program after any changes are implemented will be considered acceptance of such changes.

11. Force Majeure.

Your participation in the Program and/or your Reservation does not create liability for Ford or you for any failure to perform due to an event beyond our control, including, but not limited to, any Act of God, terrorism, war, political insurgence, insurrection, riot, civil unrest, act of civil or military authority, uprising, unavailability of materials, strike, earthquake, flood, pandemic or any other natural or man-made eventuality outside of our control.

13. Limitation of Liability.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER, SUBJECT ONLY TO THE LIMITS OF APPLICABLE LAW, SHALL FORD BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, PUNITIVE, INDIRECT, OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES OF ANY KIND WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING LOST PROFITS, LOSS OF BUSINESS OR LOSS OF OPPORTUNITY, REGARDLESS OF THE BASIS OR CIRCUMSTANCES OF ANY CLAIM, DAMAGE, LOSS OR EXPENSE, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE) OR OTHERWISE, AND REGARDLESS OF WHETHER WE HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF ANY CLAIMS, DAMAGES, LOSSES OR EXPENSES.

IN THE EVENT THAT WE ARE HELD LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIMS, DAMAGES, COSTS OR EXPENSES UNDER, ARISING OUT OF, OR WITH RESPECT TO THESE TERMS OR YOUR RESERVATION, OUR LIABILITY SHALL NOT EXCEED, IN THE AGGREGATE, THE AMOUNT OF YOUR RESERVATION DEPOSIT.

14. Applicable Law, Venue, and Class Action Waiver.

These Terms, its subject matter and its formation, and any related non-contractual disputes or claims, are governed by the laws of the State of Michigan. Ford and you agree that the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan, or the Sixth Circuit Court, Oakland County, Michigan has exclusive jurisdiction to settle any dispute, controversy or claim arising from or connected with these Terms. Ford and you consent to the jurisdiction of the Michigan courts and waive any objections as to personal jurisdiction or as to the laying of venue in such courts due to inconvenient forum or any other basis.

None of these clauses seem to be outside of any legal theory, which means I doubt a judge would find them illegal. This is standard contract language I've seen hundreds of times in my career as a contracts manager. Jurisdiction of law is Michigan. At worst Ford is liable to refund the OP's $100.

Yes, we all know about the fine print. This is a perception and PR problem, not a legal problem. If Ford wanted to upset the top-tier Ford enthusiasts so much that they lose them, their future purchases, and loyalty forever, I can think of no better way than what they are doing.

 

[WCP-82]

I don't think SAC fits in the same category as Granger dealing with this mess. They have just been added as a part of the small dealer price examples. I do not know about Chapman. I am at SAC.

SAC had a little over 300 orders as of December 2020. That number isn't much more than numbers I have seen from larger dealers not offering the big price breaks. While following the SAC thread, John at SAC commented that they aren't actually that small of a dealership. If I remember correctly he said they are number one in WV for fleet sales. John at SAC isn't too worried about his allocations for 2022. He is not sure how it will work out but doesn't anticipate losing many.

I think SAC customers will be fine. Most of his reservations were early timestamps. I'm at #104/109 with a 7/14 @1600 timestamp. All of their initial allocations were going to 7/13 or 7/14 holders. Out of his Dec 2020, 300 reservations a third were allocated. I believe they have also taken delivery of 50+ units with another 15 or so being built. That is a 65% build rate on allocations. I haven't seen any dealer numbers close to this. It doesn't seem to me that Ford has a problem with SAC.

 

[7722 Bronco]

And likely if other folks had a similar dealer relationship, or could easily have identify one, they would have gone that route.

When buying a new car last year, there were various hijinks, including trying to slip a $400 vin etching fee at the very last minute, which I caught before signing the sales contract.

Sketchy stuff like that, I'm sure you can see that not everyone is in your situation, and that drove some of the movement to dealers that offered less drama.

I can definitely see that. I feel fortunate that I have the relationship I have with them. Regular vehicles I buy $300 over invoice, specialty vehicles, my GT500 and this Bronco, are at MSRP, no drama, both parties are happy.

 

[andrusoid]

The main reason I went with the Granger offer was that it was a no B.S. price. Every time I've bought a vehicle new, I look online, figure out what the solid low price people offer (typically in the neighborhood of invoice) and the first dealer that just says "yep, here it is" gets my business.

Now, I live in NM and both of our local Ford dealers are absolutely awful. One of them when I called about a Bronco said that they were planning to do a minimum of 10k ADM on all reservation holders. At least they were up front. There is one decent dealer, but they've been hit hard by the chip shortage, and aren't considered "volume dealer," so my guess is they are somewhat in the same boat as Granger. Long story short, I'm not buying a Bronco local.

Ford thinks by screwing Granger/SAC/etc. they can drive people to their buddies that own the big dealerships. Instead, what it is going to do is drive people to Jeep, or in my case I will probably decide to just stick with my 4runner until someone makes me go electric.

To me, this just fundamentally undermines that Ford dealers suck because Ford lets them. When one tries to behave better, they get punished.

I had one of the Granger 2k off deals and finally came to my senses. How is a small dealer in a small market going to handle hundreds (guessing, but, yeah) of reservations and deliver? Don't be making saints out of them. Yes, they are upfront about wanting to grow their dealership, but at some point you have to tell people, uh, don't think we can get you a vehicle this year.

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